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The Flash (2023)

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#401: Jun 20th 2023 at 5:13:35 PM

It's pretty well documented why the film was canned, and it was for none of those reasons.

crazyrabbits Crazyrabbits from Mississauga, ON, Canada Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Crazyrabbits
#402: Jun 20th 2023 at 5:23:27 PM

I've known for a while about the "official" reasons why the film was canned:

1) Budget was too large (which doesn't discount what I suggested; I'm speaking to reasons as to why any attempt to fix the film would have pushed the budget even higher).

2) Test screenings were bad (which is not completely correct, given there were claims that it was nowhere near as bad as what the initial reports suggested).

3) They wanted to save the character(s) for other films (which doesn't discount what I suggested, given that they officially brought Keaton back in a film that now stands as one of the biggest opening weekend flops of the year, to say nothing of its final box office).

The only other reason I've seen for why this may have been cancelled is because the title character (allegedly) doesn't speak, but I haven't seen many sources speaking to it.

Edited by crazyrabbits on Jun 20th 2023 at 12:23:43 PM

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#403: Jun 20th 2023 at 5:39:33 PM

Well I stuck with it and

I don't hate it?

  • So far Keaton and whoever is playing Supergirl have been highlights.
  • After 3 super speed scenes in the past decade The Flash still managed to make a cool one.

We'll see, the first half was good but the ending drops the ball?

This Supergirl is the DCEU take on the "Cir-El" version, yeah?

  • DCEU has a knack for making Superheri flight shots look majestic in a way the CW and Marvel just don't. I loved Kara bringing Barry to the lightning. That's a nice twist on a predictable plot beat.

Edited by FOFD on Jun 20th 2023 at 8:48:31 AM

EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#404: Jun 20th 2023 at 5:55:44 PM

If you can get past some shaky CGI the movie as a whole is actually quite watchable, there is some great physical comedy and the emotional moments land pretty well. I felt the main flaw was not wrapping things up as neatly as it really should have and that is due to obvious reshoots. Flash "gives up" his mom to fix his prior meddling because that timeline was doomed against Zod, but without a resolution with Keaton/Batman and Supergirl we literally just left them dead, which makes the Clooney appearance perhaps funny but simply one more cameo with someone who means nothing to THIS story and characters. Barrys dialogue with Arthur in The Stinger implies he might be learning to explore other timelines without breaking the multiverse, but it still doesn't really match the Cosmic Retcon that was suggested in the promotion.

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#405: Jun 20th 2023 at 6:01:59 PM

So umm you wanna guess the price DC had for marketing all their films this year?1 BILLION DOLLARS. https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/c14089bcde193d6b3df135aca176f775.jpg

Edited by Mizerous on Jun 20th 2023 at 9:03:22 AM

Just Makima.
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#406: Jun 20th 2023 at 6:07:29 PM

Barbie marketing itself on chronically online memeticism looking real smart now.

FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#407: Jun 20th 2023 at 6:21:12 PM

I... cannot believe I am saying this but.)

  • This version of Flashpoint, Barry's mom being murdered, is 100 times better, more raw and emotional than the CW version. I have watched this, pardon my French, but I have seen this shit, Flashpoint 3 times now - Dark Multiverse, CW, and the animated version. This was my favorite take on it so far.
  • By pure nature of not being a 9-season jumbled mess of timelines and crossovers with other running shows - this somehow has a vastly more engaging villain with a more compelling (albeit cliche) conflict. Like, not dissing Tom Cavanagh or Tom Sears but I dig this Dark Flash way more than their versions.
  • Somehow the time travel is even less convoluted? I like time travel, unpopular as it is, but I thoroughly enjoyed Barry's epiphany and the relationship between him and his younger self. The references to this being an alternate timeline were quick and not really annoying, and that part of the film was what I was least looking forward to.
  • There's a believable, even ominous trajectory of Barry becoming his own villain that evades the expected route of using Thawne to instigate the conflict. Seeing Past Barry go from comic relief to Lethal Joke Character to Knight of Cerebus was actually pretty well played.

Maybe once it digests I'll feel differently, but I actually liked this. The ending was weak and the resolution felt lacking, but I would say its only the very last 10 minutes that make you go "well that was a movie." Literally everything else in this was more hype than everything in CW's The Flash last six seasons.

I am genuinely going to miss seeing Kryptonians fight this way. Man of Steel captured it in a way I don't think we'll see again, the impact, the superhuman power, the movement. God its actually sad that this is the last of the DCEU-style choreography we'll get to see.

Don't pay to see it like I did because Ezra Miller is a lunatic and deserves no profit from this, but good lord this movie is fine, what is everybody on about? Is it confirmed that they made a really offensive use of George Reeves or is the internet just assuming it was done tastelessly and lighting bonfires?

That's about the only thing I can find offensive in this film but, forgive me, I never watched the George Reeves version of Superman or knew anything about him prior.

Edited by FOFD on Jun 20th 2023 at 10:22:49 AM

M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#408: Jun 20th 2023 at 6:51:48 PM

I havent watched the movie but Im mostly roasting more the decisions and deciders behind the movie than what the movie has itself. Some ideas are good and executed well for what I cant ell though so much mud is going through it that is a culmination of the entire DCEU's messy history. Not to say you cant like the movie since its a miracle its watchable at all.

[up]Also the Jay Garrick cameo may not have been authorized by the actor himself. Meaning WBD may be one of the first pushers of deepfaking living actors just to not hire them.

Edited by M1gamiTensei on Jun 20th 2023 at 6:55:48 AM

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EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#409: Jun 20th 2023 at 7:18:38 PM

The Flash TV show version of Flashpoint lacked any sort of stakes, Barry creates it and it is a near perfect utopia for his life with only mild differences beyond that. He then decides he needs to revert it because... reasons. Which ends up causing more problems in the main timeline. While the Arrowverse got a little more creative with the multiverse as it went along, early seasons of Flash treated the smallest differences as huge events (Barry is shaken because Joe West in Earth-2 is... a lounge singer).

This movie does take the time to slowly unveil that the world is not just a few minor changes but has substantial differences, which Keaton/Batman and Kara convey pretty well, while Barry has just enough knowledge on the threat of Zod to establish the cost of failure. Dark Flash doesn't have quite enough build up to really work, largely because his existence is explained and his death occurs within the same 3 minutes, but the Body Horror implied as the Alternate Barry is getting fused with different materials on each time travel pass is a gnarly concept.

The George Reeves cameo is complicated, his death is an infamous mystery and it was said that he was struggling with continuing the role. That said, the cameo is intended to pay respect to his contribution to the character and unlike Christopher Reeves it appears to be modified Stock Footage rather than a full Digital Head Swap. And with Christopher Reeves while the effect isn't perfect, seeing him and a de-aged Helen Slater next to each other was kind of nice. Much of this comes down to the underlying moral questions behind The Dead Rise to Advertise, and if there was permission given by the families. My general feelings are that the sequence was a little too cameo-centric, which takes you out of the intended emotions of what is happening.

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
FOFD Since: Apr, 2013
#410: Jun 20th 2023 at 7:28:51 PM

Yeah, to all of that.

I'm just surprised - I really grinded my teeth going into the theater thinking this was going to be a wasted hour and a half. Its quite watchable in spite of everything. Shame about Miller but alas.

the Body Horror implied as the Alternate Barry is getting fused with different materials on each time travel pass is a gnarly concept.

I choose to focus on this part - for what was pretty much the same twist we got in Pixar's Lightyear between Buzz and Zerg, even knowing from this thread that Past Barry became Dark Flash, seeing the different materials get fused to him little by little established the how in a way that really made me flinch.

[lol] It did take 3 minutes for Dark Flash to come and go.

That said, the cameo is intended to pay respect to his contribution to the character and unlike Christopher Reeves it appears to be modified Stock Footage rather than a full Digital Head Swap. And with Christopher Reeves while the effect isn't perfect, seeing him and a de-aged Helen Slater next to each other was kind of nice.

Understandable concerns then. I hope that this film can be remembered for trying and being more than the sum of its failures at least because - honestly - its the only DCEU film I've liked since Man of Steel. Sasha Calle and Michael Keaton deserve props for what they brought to the film.

Also its weird how the ending of the DCEU is going to be Barry taking a drunk Aquaman back to his apartment to sleep off a night of drinking.

Edited by FOFD on Jun 20th 2023 at 10:31:55 AM

M1gamiTensei The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps from Punished “Brainwashed” M1gami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The Scrappy of the Trope Pantheon, God of Thumps
#411: Jun 20th 2023 at 7:50:33 PM

Isnt the end of the DCEU yet. We have Blue Beetle and the Aquaman sequel still.

I know this is an entirely different thing but I find it odd that Peacemaker is part of the new universe but its a sequel to the old universe’s The Suicide Squad. They should have a new name for this universe than have a weird split between old and new versions.

Pantheon server for all who click here. Lost too much money and time, this coaster ain’t stopping.
Mizerous Pet Owner from Hell Since: Oct, 2013 Relationship Status: Brewing the love potion
Pet Owner
#412: Jun 20th 2023 at 7:54:21 PM

I thought Blue Beetle was in the new DCU?

Just Makima.
lbssb The sleepiest good boi Since: Jun, 2020 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
The sleepiest good boi
#413: Jun 20th 2023 at 7:57:47 PM

Officially, it's part of the new DCU, but not part of James Gunn's main story arc.

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Blueace Surrounded by weirdoes from The End Of the World Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Surrounded by weirdoes
#414: Jun 20th 2023 at 9:03:49 PM

Let's hope it's good and that they start thinking more about movies than about setting up sequels or whatever.

Wake me up at your own risk.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#415: Jun 20th 2023 at 9:25:32 PM

At least Blue Beetle is being made on a nice manageable budget instead of Flash's bloated monstrosity

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#416: Jun 20th 2023 at 9:31:47 PM

Bet it might even have better CGI.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#417: Jun 21st 2023 at 3:27:46 AM

Don't you see Red. It's supposed to look that bad. The director said so.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#418: Jun 21st 2023 at 4:19:07 AM

Lolwhut?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#419: Jun 21st 2023 at 4:21:28 AM

Oh the director stated in repose to criticisms that looks bad that "Everything is distorted in terms of light and textures" in purpose and it's meant to look bad. This got memed all across the internet for as you can tell being blatant trying to cover for a mistake.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#420: Jun 21st 2023 at 4:22:32 AM

The Flash: So fast that the CGI can't keep up with him.

Granted, that defense kind of works for the time bubble.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Weirdguy149 Former King from Lumiose City Since: Jul, 2014 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Former King
#422: Jun 21st 2023 at 11:34:08 AM

Just say that you had no budget after all the reshoots. I would understand.

The legend has returned.
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#423: Jun 21st 2023 at 1:09:35 PM

I would imagine the overlap in a venn diagram of "people who care about bad CGI," "people who listen to the director in interviews after the movie," and "people unable to distinguish this as PR speak excusing it as bad CG" is basically nonexistent.

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miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#424: Jun 23rd 2023 at 2:25:21 PM

Box Office Upset: Spidey and ‘Elemental’ Pull Ahead of ‘The Flash’ on Wednesday

Spidey make retake the title from flash for this weekend. Which is bizzare.

Edited by miraculous on Jun 23rd 2023 at 2:25:38 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#425: Jun 23rd 2023 at 2:43:59 PM

Look out here comes the Spider-Man.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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