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That One Boss and That One Level cleanup.

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Karxrida Frogally Amazing from The Extra Deck Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Frogally Amazing
Jan 12th 2021 at 1:17:37 PM

I don't remember us agreeing to allow particularly hard Bonus Bosses. Those tend to be superbosses.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Jan 12th 2021 at 1:20:20 PM

At the very least there was absolutely no consensus to remove DLC bosses, and I'm still unclear why consensus were carved out for final bosses but not bonus ones.

Karxrida Frogally Amazing from The Extra Deck Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Frogally Amazing
Jan 12th 2021 at 1:30:16 PM

Final bosses are theoretically supposed to fall in line with the difficulty curve. We just scrutinize them a bit more since they're at the end of the curve.

Bonus Bosses are not on the curve at all.

Edited by Karxrida on Jan 12th 2021 at 1:54:35 AM

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Jan 12th 2021 at 1:44:58 PM

Setting that aside, I'm putting the main DLC ones back then, if nobody objects.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread
Jan 12th 2021 at 3:58:26 PM

It seems like every The Old Hunters boss was previously listed. I seem to recall there being a thing where if nearly every single boss of a game is listed as That One Boss, it's more of an indication that the game is meant to be very difficult and that only bosses considered difficult by the game's standards should be listed.

Granted, I don't know if that applies to DLC like The Old Hunters, but if every single boss of a piece of DLC is listed, it feels like there should be an entry elsewhere about that DLC being a major difficulty spike compared to the main game or something.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jan 12th 2021 at 3:58:42 AM

Jan 12th 2021 at 4:01:20 PM

Ludwig, Maria and the Orphan were listed. If Laurence goes to bonus boss, so be it, but I see no issue with three very unique and well-known difficult bosses in a DLC being listed. I'm mainly bringing it here because I know the general consensus was to leave them after a lengthy discussion last time.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread
Jan 12th 2021 at 4:04:55 PM

[up]Laurence was previously listed as well. This was his previous entry before it was deleted:

The Optional Boss of the DLC, Laurence the First Vicar, is a reskin of the Cleric Beast with a fire theme. The bane of many players, Laurence completely ditches the 'tough but fair' challenge in favor of attacks that are just a touch too aggressive and savage, with difficult tells, sweeping range and insane damage that requires a total lack of room for error. His final phase brings with it insane combos, leaving a trail of damaging lava and incredibly few windows for attack. Small surprise he's considered one of the most nightmarish bosses in the game.

For reference, it was previously sandwiched between Ludwig's entry and Lady Maria's entry.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jan 12th 2021 at 4:05:35 AM

Jan 12th 2021 at 5:53:48 PM

Then I'll leave him off when putting up the others.

LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas
Maintenance?
Jan 14th 2021 at 5:58:38 AM

From YMMV.Kirby Star Allies (the other subbullet, about a segment in Heroes in Another Dimension, looks fine):

  • That One Level
    • While not a particularly difficult level, Planet Towara has become pretty infamous for its moving wall sections, which will always end up crushing at least one of your allies.
    • The same applies for the final level, in which moving blocks are right there when you start the level and your allies can easily get crushed if you don't move quickly enough.
      • Basically, any level where you can be crushed counts, as your AI partners typically can't find their way around these threats and will often run into or stand near these areas without a second thought. Naturally, the Dimension levels are built around moving blocks that can crush your allies with ease.

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Jan 14th 2021 at 8:10:00 AM

NRLEP candidates * ColorTropesCleanup
BrashBuster Unconventional Crossover Enthusiast from another place, not from outer space
Unconventional Crossover Enthusiast
Mar 18th 2021 at 1:44:01 PM

Mega Man 8-Bit Deathmatch has had a dedicated That One Boss page for about four years, and it's currently split between the Core Game and Mods.

The Core Game folder includes at least one boss from every chapter from 7 to 13, which definitely strikes me as a sign of Nintendo Hard more than anything (the It's Hard, So It Sucks! entry on the main YMMV page even points this out), and already I'm convinced that the page should be cut, and only a couple (if any) of the examples listed should be kept and moved back to YMMV. There are also two examples specific to earlier versions of the game; I don't know if they should be cut for being outdated or not.

Then there's Mods. There is exactly one example in the folder relating to an AI-controlled opponent (Ice Man from Mega Man World), with over 40 being player-controlled bosses; I have no clue what our stance is on this, but if we're allowed to keep any of them, we still need to cut out the majority.

Siegfried1337 Isolated One from BEHIND YOU Relationship Status: Numbering my troper crushes
Isolated One
Mar 18th 2021 at 11:42:41 PM

[up] Just remove the Mods part. They're not part of the main game.

Currently running the Blizzard Entertainment Cleanup.
CasualChris Busiest Bumbling Busboy of Bowdlerise.Video Games from the United States Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Busiest Bumbling Busboy of Bowdlerise.Video Games
Mar 19th 2021 at 5:11:26 AM

[up]On that note, should TOB/TOL pages be barred from including unofficial content in general?

Edited by CasualChris on Mar 19th 2021 at 8:22:12 AM

Karxrida Frogally Amazing from The Extra Deck Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
Frogally Amazing
Mar 19th 2021 at 7:21:27 AM

Definitely.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
BrashBuster Unconventional Crossover Enthusiast from another place, not from outer space
Unconventional Crossover Enthusiast
Mar 19th 2021 at 7:37:13 AM

[up][up] (EDIT: [nja])

In any case, looking at the remaining Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch examples individually (Note that while the campaign isn't necessarily done, I'm gauging the distance from start to end based on how only one more Chapter is planned for the future):

    Mega Man 8-bit Deathmatch Bosses 

Pre-V5B Chapters 1-6

  • Ladies and gentlemen, I present you the easiest boss in the game, the Metool Daddy. He has tons of HP, is only vulnerable for short periods of time, and can summon lesser Metools to help him. Scared yet? But then, there's his nasty ability to jump and instantly crush the player, and not even God Mode protects you from said crushing attack. He's a 3D hitbox represented by a 2D sprite, and the sprite is in the center of the hitbox, so when he jumps at you, he's closer to you than he appears! While the post-v5B version is more tame, it's a Sequential Boss that comes after the Cossack Catcher, which can wear you down beforehand. Only one other boss (Gamma below) has access to such a significant - and threatening - One-Hit Kill. Seems like a valid example of a "That One Boss", unless, again, the fact this relates to the pre-5b update version renders this moot.
  • Then there's Gamma, who, while a Final Boss (at least until v3), is incredibly difficult to defeat without the use of cheats. Let us count all the myriad ways this boss is difficult...
    • Like with the Metool Daddy above, he can cause tremors which damage your character. But while the Metool Daddy's landing tremors have a bit of a cooldown after landing, he can cause a tremor with every single step he takes.
    • Being many times the size of your character of choice, he can crush you underfoot.
    • The arena is in a cross shape, with pits of spikes taking up the corners of the arena. This can be a detriment to you if Gamma ends up trapping you and you have nowhere to run around him, which means either getting stomped into jelly or making a dive into spikes. Particularly jarring if you're trying to go for items and ammo around the arena and you find him bearing down on you seconds later.
    • Gamma's attacks are also pretty harsh. He doesn't have many of them, but boy, do they hurt. They cover a better part of the battlefield and can knock your health down greatly if they connect. His laser attack in particular is a pain; it fires at odd, unpredictable angles and takes off a huge amount of your HP if it connects.
    • Proto Man's vague hints. While it is helpful to know that you need to use your strongest weapons against the Final Boss, you might not exactly be aware of what you can use. Fans of Mega Man 3 will know right off the bat that Gamma's weakness was the Hard Knuckle (in his first form anyway), but a fully charged Atomic Fire shot, Crash Bomber, or the Ballade Cracker isn't nearly as obvious. Once you drain all of his health, Proto Man tells you to use a close range attack to finish him off. Better figure it out! The one you need to use is a well-timed Top Spin (which is another send-up of Mega Man 3; Gamma's second form could be decimated by Top Spin in mere seconds), in lieu of using Rush Coil moments prior.
    • Gamma's weak point. You should probably know by now that his weak point is his helmet, but that alone is hard to hit.
    • Finally, if you fail to successfully pull off the Rush Coil-Top Spin maneuver in time, Gamma will get right back up and have a third of his health bar refill. May also be valid, if not at least for similar reasons to pre-5b Met Daddy and the small weakness pool.

Post-V5b Chapters 1-6 and Chapters 7+

  • Bass is the replacement boss of the Mega Man 7 chapter, and he's quite the doozy. The first phase is a little tricky since he can tank a lot of shots, moves fairly quickly and hits quite hard with his special attacks (a flip-kick and a fully charged buster shot), but it's manageable. The second phase, on the other hand, gets insane thanks to Bass activating his Super Mode by combining with Treble and causing the roof of the tower to collapse, initiating a Free-Fall Fight as the second and final phase of the boss. Not only does Bass have the ability to fly around wherever he pleases in the fight, his attacks are much more sporadic and cover much more ground. Additionally, thanks to Bass destroying the floor, you're in freefall riding the roof debris to the bottom of the tower, which means you have many different elevations to keep track of as you fight Bass. You'll get the Super Adapter to give you an edge, but you have to keep moving in this fight and flying around or else you're a sitting duck for Bass, and with all the jumping and flying you'll be doing to stay alive and shoot down the boss, you'll inevitably send yourself off into the pit. Screw up once, and you'll have to start from the beginning of the second phase. All of this combines to make a boss even more difficult than even the infamous Wily Capsule from the same game. Exaggeration with comparing it to the Mega Man 7 Wily Capsule aside, wasn't this boss toned down in a later release? In fact, I think this is one of the only bosses I've beaten legit.
  • As of version 3, and the intro of the Mega Man 8 campaign, we now have the Evil Robot, IN SPACE. Granted, he's incredibly fun to fight and the battle itself is epic, but holy hell, is he hard.
    • Firstly, his attacks. Considering he stole the powers of all the Mega Man 8 Robot Masters, he now has what are basically hyper-charged versions of them similar to Lumine. And they do hurt, though they vary in dodging ease - his Astro Crush and Tornado Hold are usually easy to dodge, but the Flash Bomb spread and Ice Wave are a nightmare to dodge.
    • He cannot be damaged most of the time; instead, you have to wait until he starts charging up his fist, and charge up your own Duo fist as well, and then wait for the small opening when you can bitch-smack him. This isn't so hard, but, if one of the longer-lasting attacks are still in effect, especially late into the fight, you could mess up the timing, and he'll hit you for at least half your health.
    • Once he's lost a lot of health, he'll start using two attacks at once. To be more specific, after the first attack, he'll fire the second one while the first is still in effect. Generally he'll use attacks that take a while to end, and then follow up with a quicker one to try and catch you off-guard while you're trying to dodge the first one. This can be very hard to juggle. His charge afterwards is also a lot faster.
    • The arena is in space, with an invisible boundary indicated by the highlighted corners. You can also fly, which is vital for avoiding his attacks, as you're faster when you're not touching anything. Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell if you're near a wall in the heat of the moment, and if you either fly up into the ceiling or into a wall, there's a good chance you'll be briefly stuck, long enough for an attack to nail you hard. Overall a little unsure about this one; Version 5 did make the Tornado Hold attack harder, but otherwise I remember this guy being the only other boss I beat legit from after Chapter 6.
  • While the Genesis Unit aren't too bad individually, they become a complete nightmare at the climax of Chapter 10, when you have to fight them all at once. Buster Rod G snipes you from afar with his staff, Mega Water S keeps shooting harpoons at you, and Hyper Storm H causes quakes with an alarming frequency rivalling that of Gamma above. And that's not even getting into the formation attacks, of which the Delta formation is the hardest to survive due to the Buster Rod clones, Hyper Storm's suction and Mega Water's constant water spouts coming up from underneath you. The sole saving grace in this fight is that all three of them are vulnerable to being shot up until they do their formation attacks, which means they're more or less invincible until it finishes. You're gonna spend most of this fight trying to play chicken with them more than you will shooting them, and it's arguably tougher than any of the other bosses thus far. Okay, definitely remove the "thus far" part, but otherwise I do remember this boss being quite overwhelming; if the three Genesis Unit members ganging up on you between attack patterns isn't enough, we can cut this since Attack Pattern Delta is listed under That One Attack on the main YMMV page.
  • The Mega Mech Shark, the final boss of the Mega Man 9 chapter. It's another fairly epic battle like the Evil Robot, but it's hard because it's the only Unexpected Shmup Level in the game; the entire fight takes place flying on Rush Jet. And as you'd expect from a side-scrolling shoot-'em-up, there's a ton of projectiles (sometimes to the point where it starts becoming Bullet Hell) to be mindful of as you chase the boss down. Plus, there's four whole phases to the fight, making it a true test of endurance to fight. Unexpected Shmup Level and Marathon Boss is a pretty nasty mix here, yes, but this is in Chapter 11 - pretty late in the game - and I recall the boss at least being somewhat frequent with healing items.
  • The Weapons Archive is a lot harder than in Mega Man 10 proper, by virtue of using attacks from the game's fortress bosses instead of robot masters. The first phase is fairly tame, with the only really bad attack being the Doc Robot mimic, but the second has Duo and King copies, which are a lot tougher. The third phase is a little more predictable, except for its Bass mimic, but chances are you'll be low on health and/or ammo by that point. Again, rather late in the game, but the length combined with very little healing items might push it into keeper territory.
  • Terra is pretty annoying, always teleport spamming all over the place and moving away from your line of fire when its on him. He also fires two Spark Chasers at you, which can seriously hurt and come at you so fast, that dodging them can be a pain. Not to mention he can also freeze you in place, leaving you open to them as well. At points in the battle, he can also summon an arsenal of them (looking almost like Piccolo's Hellzone Grenade) and, with a snap of his finger, fire them all at you at once, dealing tons of damage. Fought very late in the game, and actually takes decent damage from a few weapons, especially Deep Digger.
  • Sunstar. The prefight phase is actually quite mild, but when the cutscene ends and his health appears... oh boy. Get too close to him, and he'll grab and toss you into a wall (sometimes a wall that he's closest to, and he can do this while other attacks are still active, meaning you'll take tons of damage while you're in his grasp), fire heat waves that split once they hit a wall, send a damaging wave across the ground that follows you and leaves a trail, all of which can rack up damage quickly, creating jumping sparks you have to quickly run under, and fire a giant laser that, if you mistime a jump, shreds half of your health. This isn't even bringing up his desperation attack that occurs when you deal enough damage to him; sending a plethora of damaging ground waves at you, then creating large bridges of fire on the ground that linger for the rest of the attack, and summoning a pillar wall of flames that circle around, that can separate themselves, going in different speeds, and can shred your health like it's nothing. Even after that attack and he goes back to his usual pattern, he gains one additional move, in which he turns into a meteor and bounces after you, which is insanely fast, leaves little room to dodge at the right time and deals tons of damage too. Did we also forget to mention he has lots of health? Unless you make good use of the Grab Buster (which heals you every time you deal damage) and Plant Barrier (which heals you as long as you have ammo for it), don't be surprised when you die to him rather quickly, and dying at any point in the battle means you have to start all over again.
    • If you somehow manage to beat him, it's not over yet; the Evil Robot (or rather, its head on some robotic spider legs) appears and possesses Sunstar, fusing with and turning him into a One-Winged Angel with its head and tentacles on its back and for its right arm. Its attacks are insane, firing a volley of energy balls that split once they hit a surface, making tentacles erupt from the ground in many directions, and rushing towards you to skid you across the ground, dealing tons of damage. And it cannot be damaged. After a while, the battle turns into an Escape Sequence where you have to escape the exploding Wily Star and you have to quickly open several doors and avoid the tentacles that appear. Dying at any point means you have to restart from, thankfully, the beginning of this phase. This whole thing discusses one of the game's last bosses, and what initially seems like the last boss. Definitely cut.

Edited by BrashBuster on Mar 19th 2021 at 7:41:17 AM

Siegfried1337 Isolated One from BEHIND YOU Relationship Status: Numbering my troper crushes
Isolated One
Mar 20th 2021 at 2:56:37 AM

By the way, who agreed to add back the DLC bosses in ThatOneBoss.Bloodborne?

Currently running the Blizzard Entertainment Cleanup.
AnoBakaDesu Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
Mar 21st 2021 at 12:17:35 AM

Should there be a word limit to a given example like Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard? I'm looking at all the recent serial tweakings on ThatOneBoss.Monster Hunter and the resulting paragraphs are starting to get clogged. I'll be looking to trim several of those soon.

"They played us like a DAMN FIDDLE!" — Kazuhira Miller, Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain
Mar 21st 2021 at 12:57:12 AM

As has been covered extensively, there i not, nor should there be a bar to DLC bosses keeping here.

I asked for objections, nobody did.and there were pages of arguing this.

DocSharp "Gentlemen." from the long lost land of Canada
"Gentlemen."
Mar 21st 2021 at 1:24:44 AM

[up][up] I think there's a site-wide soft rule about making entries too long. I think we have a motto for it? I genuinely can't remember. Regardless, checking the page, you'd be doing a service. Go fer it, chief.

[down] That's the one! Thanks!

Edited by DocSharp on Mar 21st 2021 at 1:28:32 AM

EVERYTHING IS LIIIIIIIES
Mar 21st 2021 at 1:34:24 AM

I say go for it with trimming some fat

CasualChris Busiest Bumbling Busboy of Bowdlerise.Video Games from the United States Relationship Status: Seeking boyfriend-free girl
Busiest Bumbling Busboy of Bowdlerise.Video Games
Mar 21st 2021 at 6:38:50 AM

So I'd like a little bit of help deciding on something for ThatOneLevel.Super Mario Bros.

The Super Mario Sunshine folder mainly consists of examples relating to the secret obstacle courses in specific "episodes" (missions). I feel like these fall under That One Sidequest since they don't describe the entire level as being hard; just the secret courses in the levels themselves (ex: the Sand Bird example only describes the Sand Bird course as being hard and not Gelato Beach, the level it's found in, as a whole).

However, I also feel that the secret courses are unique enough to qualify as their own levels, and removing all the examples relating to them would mean that only the Sirena Beach example would remain.

What's the best course (no pun intended) of action here?

ShinyCottonCandy Yo-yoshi! LEGO-shi! from LEGO Yoshi's Island Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Yo-yoshi! LEGO-shi!
Mar 21st 2021 at 6:54:41 AM

[up]Well, at the very least, I consider "required to get to the default ending of a game" more a level than a sidequest, and given the game's "the first seven missions of each area are required" system, the sandbird is definitely not a sidequest.

YouTube | SoundCloud
Mar 21st 2021 at 10:10:03 AM

[up][up] I feel like in the context of Super Mario Sunshine, the word "level" fits the individual episodes better than it does the areas in which they take place.

Edited by Zuxtron on Mar 21st 2021 at 1:11:00 PM

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you very much Relationship Status: Married to the job
That's Dr. Title, thank you very much
Mar 21st 2021 at 11:01:00 AM

I'm playing it now, and I'd describe each shine as being essentially a level.

Siegfried1337 Isolated One from BEHIND YOU Relationship Status: Numbering my troper crushes
Isolated One
Mar 21st 2021 at 2:47:08 PM

Lightysnake: I can somewhat allow leeway for DLC bosses if they're part of a DLC campaign itself. Does Bloodborne: The Old Hunters sound like a DLC campaign?

Currently running the Blizzard Entertainment Cleanup.

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