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Well, we can't change this to an objective trope here, you'll have to argue at TRS.
See, the problem with that is there's a huge chunk of villains who were unrepentantly evil with no redeeming qualities like Obito and Master Xehanort, only to get an Ass Pull Last Second Redemption. It's one thing if the character wasn't that vile to begin with but for characters who at the present time, show no signs of wanting redemption yet get redeemed in the finale, I still say they should stay. Especially if they have no FE.
Edited by Klavice on Aug 10th 2019 at 10:30:52 AM
That would go against the trope definition, though.
I just don't see what the point of the trope is if we axe the irredeemable part. Then it's basically just Kick the Dog except worse.
I see good points on both sides, since the trope was designed with irredeemability in mind and "Event Horizon" implies no going back. On the other hand, a character becoming redeemable in the end of a story doesn't inherently make their previous actions acceptable, and the audience can still find a villain irredeemably evil because of the act, even if the work disagrees.
It's the difference between objective irredeemability and subjective irredeemability.
I just saw this entry for Jerry on the Rick and Morty page, and it really doesn't seem like an example of the character becoming "irredeemable."
Honestly, a few other entries on there could probably be looked at.
Rick and Morty is chock full of Comedic Sociopathy (the first episode literally opens with Rick trying to destroy humanity), I don't think the MEH really exists there.
Should the Moral Event Horizon subpages be Spoilers Off? I'm leaning yes since I feel a similar aura there to Complete Monster.
Also, what of the Trakeena entry here? The show's CM Deviot became one with Trakeena before the act occurred impairing the latter's moral agency, so that would be Deviot's MEH, and Trakeena's MEH must have occurred before the Fusion Dance.
Update: Since no one responded in time, I've taken the liberty of fixing the Trakeena entry myself.
Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Sep 18th 2019 at 2:49:45 PM
I tried to refrain from doing this, but I'm bumping the thread for a good reason.
There's some dispute over whether or not Trakeena can be accountable in terms of moral agency for the Stingwingers. TV Lubber says that Deviot was dead before Trakeena caused the Stingwinger suicide bombs, but the PR CM page says that "The absorption of [Deviot]'s evil soul drives Trakeena completely over the edge, leading her to murder her mentor, Villimax, use her men as suicide bombers, and try to regain her human form by stealing the life energy of others." So yeah, I believe that Deviot crossed it by "ambush[ing] Trakeena, forc[ing] her into the cocoon, and fus[ing] with her"
That was Trakeena's doing. Deviot was dead.
Trakeena confirmed it herself: "I'm fine, but Deviot's not. He's finished!".
And she was already planning on destroying Terra Venture BEFORE she killed Deviot in the cocoon and absorbed his personality.
Quote: "They'll wish they never left the Lost Galaxy when I'm done."
Plus, Deviot or no, Trakeena was fully responsible for killing Villamax, especially since she was the one who sent Treacheron to his death. She was already a constant backstabber to begin with.
Edited by TVLubber on Sep 18th 2019 at 6:28:10 AM
TV Lubber~ Trakenna's quote that Deviot was "finished" was clearly Deviot's soul corrupting Trakeena. Deviot's CM entry made it clear influencing Trakeena meant he could do a lot of damage even after he was dead. The CM entries are carefully curated by a consensus, so the wording in Deviot's CM is the more important word.
Anything that happened after Deviotrakeena was born, her moral agency was impaired by Deviot's aptly-named essence.
Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Sep 18th 2019 at 9:30:37 AM
What's the work exactly, and what exactly happened?
She never had any "moral agency" to begin with. Look what she did to Treacheron. I'm sure even without Deviot, she would've killed Villamax, anyway.
Plus, she was still out to avenge her father's death, despite Deviot.
Edited by TVLubber on Sep 18th 2019 at 6:42:11 AM
War Jay 77~ TV Lubber~ Power Rangers Lost Galaxy. Let's see here: Deviot forces Trakeena into cocoon. Deviot dies. But Deviot's evil soul corrupts Trakeena's moral agency. Deviotrakeena (not Trakeena alone) accountable for the Stingwingers and Villamaxicide.
Edited by FoxyGrandpa12 on Sep 18th 2019 at 9:44:23 AM
Trakeena was already planning on attacking Terra Venture before she killed Deviot in the cocoon and absorbed what was left of him.
And seeing how she drove Treacheron to his death before, Villamax was far from safe from Trakeena's Chronic Backstabbing Disorder, Deviot or no Deviot.
It's apparent that all Deviot's influence did to Trakeena was empower her.
Besides, Deviot's worst act (other than corrupting the lost Galactabeasts) was driving Scorpius to his death for his own agenda. Anything else he did afterwards was just gravy.
That doesn't take him out of CM territory, but still...
Edited by TVLubber on Sep 18th 2019 at 6:55:48 AM
Very well. I'll discuss this issue with the CM thread.
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