Would it make more sense if we worded it as "Classic Dragon Ball" and "Modern Dragon Ball"?
I honestly can't see the value of acting like what they were called before Super was conceived of matters more than the actual content and style of the movies.
Edited by Moth13 on Jan 23rd 2023 at 11:03:20 AM
Here's a video of Ultra Instinct Goku literally dancing around everyone:
.....He must be fun to fight.
No potholes. I'll let you determine if I'm serious or not.
One Strip! One Strip!To be fair, doing those dodges in the moment aren't too easy and you usually just don't have the opportunity to do them in the first place unless either the opponent is super telegraphing his moves, or - say - you hypothetically have infuriatingly precise computer like timing and reading of inputs.
Incidentally, the Raid Boss in which he was controlled by an incredibly precise computer with infuriating reaction times is straight up infamous (hilariously so) for being (almost!) impossible.
The true beauty of a Mirror Match:
Somebody help that dude. I don't know if he could take something like that again.
One Strip! One Strip!What kind of moveset do you guys think Chi-Chi would have if made playable?
Many point to Super Dragon Ball Z as influence, but a more authentic one can work just as well:
Essentially, her gameplan would probably be a hybrid between Adult Gohan and Videl. Rushdown with lots of rekkas and her damage and combo potential can increased with Red Blazing Aura, but she lacks range.
Here's what I think her stats will be like:
I made a lot more stat tables like that.
Edited by dhochoy on Jan 29th 2023 at 7:21:53 AM
The downside to taking solely from the “fight” Teen Chichi has with Goku is that there’s barely anything to that scene - it can barely really be called a fight - resulting in a ton of additional invention to make a move set based on it work.
No matter what, you’re basically making up most of her movelist, and if you’re going to be doing that anyway while bringing in stuff from filler might’ve gotten some purist fans’ rankles up, it was an overall smart decision that allowed the character to open up, represent more of the franchise, and be more dynamic.
Arc System might've considered Chi-Chi but went with Videl as the melee-focused female martial artist, since she was easier and more obvious of a choice (more fight scenes, can fly, and can paired with Great Saiyaman).
Would be fun to see her act as a quasi-replacement for the sequel.
GT Goku having the Power Pole is also a roundabout reference to Path To Power if that helps.
And Super DBZ being first and foremost manga-based (look at the general atmosphere along with the colour of Piccolo's arm muscles for one) still didn't really stop them giving Chi-Chi a bunch of new moves involving the Bansho Fan. That and, well, No Fucks Given Mecha Freeza.
Are explosions science?That plus they didn't seem particularly interested in pre-Raditz characters. Even Roshi's concept is based mostly on his Tournament of Power incarnation, with a few earlier details like the literal original Kamehameha as a LVL 3.
That's not true at all. Roshi is like 80% Dragon Ball, 10% Resurrection F, and 10% Tournament of Power.
Only technically. A lot of Roshi's stuff originated conceptually' from early Dragonball, in the sense that when they appeared in Super they were throwbacks to that era, but the execution of those ideas are drawn directly from Super not the early episodes.
Very little of it is specifically drawn from Dragonball. Check out KevinX's breakdown of both him and GT Goku, he breaks down how the reference system more or less works where Fighter Z is involved - it first appears in an early thing, and then it also appears later material, and the game would draw from the latter rather than the earlier incarnations. When given the choice, FighterZ preferred newer references to older ones.
Them picking the manga specifically for his Lvl 3 is straight up surprising. The game almost never did that.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 29th 2023 at 9:46:52 AM
I mean, you can judge for yourself right here:
Looks like 80% DB to me. Most of his normals come straight from Dragon Ball with no Super counterpart.
Though one little detail he missed is that Roshi's back kick is from his fight with Krillin.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 29th 2023 at 10:48:28 AM
So by 80% you meant normals, specifically?
While it's true that Roshi's less an example of prefering newer content as GT Goku was, it's definitely still there in Kevin's analysis (though there also seem to be a lot of original moves that Kevin is reaching / "close enough"ing a bit to find references for), and it's worth noting that a lot of characters who were around at that time have normals filled in from early Dragonball - mostly because that's where the bulk of the actual fight choreography (and thus, basic thrown punches and kicks and so on) in the series is.
Oh, man. Super Dragonball Z was full of original ideas. Every characters had their own branching skill trees, composed of a ton of crazy variations and "what if" moves. Some characters were fairly boring standard, but for some characters the designers just let their imaginations run wild.
Wanna play Sci-Fi Ronin Trunks with a Megaman-style projectile spewing laser sword? Wanna place super-mech zoner Freeza with mines and giant lasers? Wanna play untouchable Barrier Warrior Cell?
It was so novel and different in comparison to every other Dragonball game at the time. I've always wondered if it shared developers with Street Fighter EX.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 29th 2023 at 10:15:02 AM
Maybe, but I think you're overemphasizing how prominent normals are in the conception of a character and their presentation.
From a mechanical standpoint, a character's normals are the most important part of their moveset, and knowing the difference is important difference between low level and high level play. But from a design standpoint? Maybe in something very normals focused like Street Fighter, but in a game as fast and custom-combo focused as this, most normals are more filled in through necessity than a design priority. (This is probably why Kevin ends up having to "close enough" a lot of those, tbh).
And heck, even that's with solely looking specifically at moveset. Not how the character moves. How the character's aesthetically presented. Cinematics involving the character...
It's a stretch to look at Fighter Z Roshi and conclude that the developers designed him predominantly around Dragonball Roshi vs Tournament of Power Roshi, pointing specifically at certain normals as proof. Especially given what I noted before about how the franchise handles fight choreography. And as I said, the use of newer versions of content is there even in Kevin's analysis.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 29th 2023 at 10:39:28 AM
As someone who makes movesets as a hobby, I can tell you that the Supers are the easiest part of the moveset to make, and the normals are the hardest. I'm not going to just overlook the fact that Roshi's 2M and 5M are direct references to his Drunken Fist style, that's badass.
And I'm not pointing just to certain normals, I'm pointing to the whole moveset.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 29th 2023 at 11:40:24 AM
... okay? Join the club, I guess. A lot of people on here make movesets as a hobby, myself included.
Normals being hard to conceive is because they're there for mechanical purposes rather than aesthetic purposes: it's much easier to make specials because of what I'm talking about: specials are bigger, flashier, meant to be more oppressive, and are thus where the personality and aesthetic of the characters involved typically shines the most.
For normals, because they're where most of the character balance comes from, that has to be the priority in making them and thus they're far more difficult to conceive.
Again, this is why you see Kevin "close enough"ing a lot of those normals references: normals are largely designed to fit a certain mechanical purpose and first and foremost, and as such don't always perfectly fit references. The ones you see that are exact tend to be autocombo moves, where once you hit with the first one the rest of it doesn't really matter.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 29th 2023 at 10:47:48 AM

Super literally retold those movies. The events of those movies are part of the Super storyline. They're part of Super. Res 'F' was re-released with a scene promoting the Future Trunks arc added. The movies are equally canon to Super as the anime episodes are.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 23rd 2023 at 8:54:33 AM