Hi, folks! We're currently in the middle of an extended wiki development project that will add some nifty tools to the moderation kit (and some bells and whistles for tropers as well). While a full list of what's coming is outside the scope of this topic, there is one very specific thing that needs community involvement and feedback: the namespace configuration system.
In a Nutshell
We're changing namespaces from informal components that anyone can add (you can make an article in the "Glurkbrgl" namespace if you want, just by editing it) to a formal list of allowed values. This list can be added to and offers additional controls, such as the ability to set which style sheet is used by articles in the namespace, which page type is the default, the icon for the namespace tab bar, and how editing and article creation work.Namespace Configuration System
- Namespaces will be itemized in a database table.
- There will be a php page where anyone can view the list and the settings for each namespace, and mods can edit them.
- The configuration system will have (roughly) the following attributes:
- Name: (Main, YMMV, etc.) This will include the canonical capitalization of the namespace (see below).
- Editing Status: This will be a selection from a list of possible restrictions, from "Open" (anyone can edit/create articles) to "Require TLP" (article creation must go through Trope Launch Pad) to "Closed" (nobody can edit or create articles), and a few more.
- Page Type: The default page type to assign to articles in the namespace (a work, a creator, a trope, a subpage, etc.).
- Style: Main, Darth Wiki, Sugar Wiki, etc.
- Auto-Index: Whether the namespace behaves like normal or is automatically indexed, such as in Laconic Wiki.
- Icon: Choose the icon that appears in the namespace tab bar in the header of wiki articles.
- When anyone requests a wiki article (HTTP GET to pmwiki.php), the namespace part of the URL will be checked and forced to the proper capitalization. This will prevent things like "Ymmv", which break wiki functionality.
- When anyone tries to create or edit an article, the namespace configuration will be checked to determine if that action is allowed. If creation is blocked, a suitable message will be displayed. If editing is blocked, then the article will display as locked.
What We Need
What we need from the community is agreement on which namespaces should be kept and which should be discarded. The wiki has accumulated a lot of cruft due to the free-for-all nature of namespace creation, and we want to start with as clean a slate as possible.For reference:
- The formal namespace list is here: Namespace.
- The complete list of namespaces may be viewed with this tool: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/articlecount.php
- The full list of articles in any particular namespace may be seen here, except that it won't work for Main: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/namespace_index.php?ns=YMMV.
How This Will Work
If we decide not to keep a namespace, any articles in it should either be cut or moved to a more suitable namespace. Any such namespaces that have remaining articles when the new system goes live will be set to "Closed", so that nobody can make new ones and the existing ones will be automatically locked.For all remaining namespaces, we need to populate the initial settings: page type, editing status, and style. Note that many of these are already known and configured, so we'll carry those over — there's no need to renegotiate the status of Main or YMMV, for example. I'm mainly talking about the odder ones like, say, Castle.
After the system goes live, if anyone tries to add an article that isn't in an approved namespace, the attempt will be blocked. Requesting new namespaces would be done in the Locked Pages topic or some other topic we create specifically for that purpose.
Rules and Procedures
- The working list of namespaces to load into the configuration system will be stored in Namespace Cleanup Project.
- Any user may bring up a namespace that they think should be removed or given special handling.
- If there is significant immediate consensus, we'll approve it and any required actions (cleanup, transplants) can begin.
- If consensus is not clear, then we will use a crowner to collect votes.
We will also answer general questions about the system in this topic, but we will keep it focused specifically on the namespace project. Off-topic thumps will be used if needed.
- Q: Are we changing any media namespaces (Film, Western Animation, Manhua, etc.)?
A: No, we are not. That's not in the scope of the project; the intent is to configure all media namespaces as they currently exist. - Q: What are we doing with examples subpages (like Castle.Tropes Ato D)?
A: We want to clean those up. Check out this post to see some ideas, and this Google Drive doc for a list of all such articles.
Note: We can't just merge them back together, as most were hard split for size to begin with. - Q: So what should we focus on?
A: That's a great question! We're looking mainly at namespaces that have fewer than 40 articles in them, and that are not medium namespaces. In other words, let's start from the bottom of the list. In particular, let's get rid of one-off namespaces that aren't being used for actual trope content. - Q: Is there a list of all namespaces that are being used for trope example subpages?
A: Thanks for asking. Yes, it's here. Note that some media namespaces were caught in the query.
Edited by nombretomado on Jan 5th 2020 at 11:39:34 AM
Veteran Editor IV
I'd say so. Empty page with no work done for years.
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
the Retromancer
Looks like Legally Exists cut was declined. For future reference here are its other pages.
Well, if a mod declined cutting the page, you could say it...
Legally Exists
I suppose the page could be turned into a redirect to a Just for Fun page, but that sort of defeats the point of cutting the namespace. The cut might also get through if the page is moved to Just for Fun under the same name, since the automatic disambig would catch inbounds.
If it does get moved to Just for Fun, I could imagine a joke on the page about the Neutral Wiki facing the consequences of Neutrality Backlash.
the Retromancer
It would be faster to just ask a mod about the decline reason than speculate and linking it to unrelated pages.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
I don't see how either of the pages I mentioned are unrelated, but yeah, that should probably should be done first.
the Retromancer
I've meant it trying to be its own thing and not JFF (this description is also incocnsistent), so redirecting one "subwiki" to another would be quite a jump.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Not sure if this is the right spot for this, but the Kiki Kai Kai series is better known as the Pocky & Rocky series outside Japan, and had a new game released under the title Pocky & Rocky Reshrined. What name should the series be put under, since there's pages for both names?
The Protomen enhanced my life.
the Retromancer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You may want English localization thread. And a rule of thumb: a work with official English release goes under the localized name.
Thanks!
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
Neutral Wiki is no more. JustForFun.Legally Exists and JustForFun.Neutral Wiki were created as redirects to Main.Just For Fun to catch inbounds.
I don't have a strong opinion on the matter.
You can't always get what you want.
the Retromancer
NeutralWiki/LegallyDoesntExist
I've noticed something odd
while checking Namespace Cleanup Project, and made a comment on it here, would like a take on it.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
Yeah, those should be moved to Recap/ pages.
Macron's notes
the Retromancer
And BlackMirror/ is no more.
Noticed a lot of Sliding Scale/ cuts. I wonder what provoked it now, and how much stub-ier cut pages were compared to what's remaining.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
(she/her)
We noticed a user was creating nothing but new Sliding Scale/ pages and some of them were rather sparse so we cut them. Making new Sliding Scale pages was actually something we were supposed to be moving away (didn't know this until yesterday though) so put a moratorium on newly created ones.
Looking back, some of what was cut was that much different from what remained (although some only had 3-5 levels) so I'd say they were more so cut for being made after 2021. I was told that there was a mod comment somewhere discouraging further use of the Sliding Scale/ pages but I haven't found it yet
Edited by MacronNotes on May 10th 2022 at 1:47:44 PM
Macron's notes
Veteran Editor IV
I'd say that was pretty uncouth. Something like SlidingScale.Multi Disc Work had a decent number of entries (six or seven if I remember correctly) so it was definitely not a stub and just like with any other page type, it's possible to make a good one or a bad one.
Edited by Piterpicher on May 11th 2022 at 12:16:38 PM
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Lost in Space
Sliding scale articles serve no purpose. Because Type Labels Are Not Examples, they can't be used as tropes, so they fall into the Just for Fun category. We are trying to keep a lid on that, not explode it.
Edited by Fighteer on May 11th 2022 at 8:30:43 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Veteran Editor IV
I agree that Sliding Scale is a(n underdeveloped) JFF venue that doesn't have much of a purpose (at least one I or you can see), so I don't really care whether it stays or goes. Still, that page (and possibly others, but I didn't read them) being called a stub as part of the cut reason when it was in fact not a stub is very inappropriate.
Edited by Piterpicher on May 11th 2022 at 3:59:44 PM
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
I mean, it depends on what we mean by stub. How do we classify a stub when it comes to non-traditional pages, like sliding scales? 6 entries would be good for a work page, but I'm not sure 6 entries is enough to justify a sliding scale.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Veteran Editor IV
Good point. Still, SlidingScale.Home Page giving five entries for its example scale kinda makes it seem like six would be more than enough.
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Veteran Editor IV
Just came across StockPhrases.The Stupendium. Only page in the StockPhrases/ namespace, and Stock Phrases is an index. I think it may be worth cutting.
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
the Retromancer
These aren't examples to me anyway, so go ahead.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
We don't have a trope for plays on a common phrase?
Edit: We have Other Stock Phrases... And the one that's this twist, is on there, under T.
- No I in 'Team' but there's Con in 'Economy'
Edited by Malady on Jun 21st 2022 at 5:00:17 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Anime.Nobunaga Concerto is based on a manga and the page does appear to trope the manga, but it doesn't even have Manga.Nobunaga Concerto as a redirect. Move?
(she/her)
Sounds like a valid move to me.
Macron's notes
Today have discovered NeutralWiki.Legally Exists, and I think its purge
wasn't as complete. Should it and its 5 wicks be cut? There's a bit of discussion after it but feels like it stopped after "feel free to move to JFF".
Edited by Amonimus on Apr 21st 2022 at 11:56:10 AM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup