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TamH70 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Dec 6th 2018 at 7:51:42 PM

[up]Yep.

Is this the first game of the new year that I'm purchasing? Hells yes.

Look, I can see the problems people have with the endings of this game, but I don't think the game could have ended any other way if you're paying any attention to what you see and what is said throughout its running time.

Either way, the Deputy is up shit creek without the proverbial paddle - with her/his mind already having been controlled by Jacob and doomed to trigger any time that Platters song starts up, or she/he ends up in the bunker with Joseph paying for their "sins". However Joseph chooses to take his payment... yeah, that bit right at the end is as creepy as heck. The carnage on the run to the bunker in that SUV is awe-inspiring. Lots of nukes going thwaBAMM! everywhere.

Anyroads, Joseph turns up in the new game so you and I may get a chance to kill the son of a bitch.

Cris_Meyers reluctant author, willing misanthrope from Chicagoland Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
reluctant author, willing misanthrope
Dec 6th 2018 at 8:03:41 PM

I'm not a hard no on New Dawn, but I'm close.

5 was serviceable enough, but all the foibles like being dragged in front of the Holy Trinity of Megalomaniacs just left me feeling vaguely unsatisfied and not particularly wanting more.

I'll wait and see come February. Maybe I'll be surprised.

SgtRicko from Guam, USA Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Dec 6th 2018 at 8:14:10 PM

So I was right... that's Joseph the girls are shooting at on the game's box cover. Guess that means he switched sides after realizing the apocalypse only made people even more desperate and psychotic.

I think I also saw Pastor Jerome manning the walls when the twins attacked, so that means we might also see some of the other Buddies for hire make a return. Kinda hoping Peaches made it, that pussy was amazing at killing whole outposts without the enemy even noticing her.

Would you believe I never fully watched the original Indiana Jones trilogy? I gotta correct that someday.
TuefelHundenIV Watchman of the Apocalypse from Wandering Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchman of the Apocalypse
Dec 6th 2018 at 9:00:43 PM

I have enough games on my future list including the new Stellaris update, EDF 5 next week, Red Dead 2, and a game in the same time frame next year. My que is full.

"Who watches the watchmen?"
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 7th 2018 at 12:37:55 AM

[up]x4

That was my problem. The game only really ends that way because it wanted to despite all build up otherwise.

Notably, There was no indication that your fellow townies you'd rescued were re-captured before they're just theyre for the boss fight.

Or how Joseph is about to get his just reward only for a bomb to go off unrelated to his own actions. Its too convenient. It feels like a writer trapped between killing off a villain he doesn't want to and a protagonist that really doesn't have any reason NOT to shoot the bad guy. Its the Doyalist version of "Why don't you shoot the son of a bitch?"

TamH70 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:10:25 AM

[up] I'm sorry, I hear what you are saying (I think) but I don't agree with it. There's more than enough evidence in-game that the world outside Hope County is pretty much screwed. And Joseph has THOUSANDS of cultists that could pop off, kidnap your pals while you're off blowing the shit out of shrines and Bliss dumps, and have them waiting for you at his church. What makes you think you've actually done enough in Hope County to stop that happening?

Besides, out of universe, New Dawn was coming. That's been planned for a while. That's why Ubisoft says that the Great Collapse is canon to the Far Cry universe and since it's very much their sand-pit, I'm not arguing with them.

SgtRicko from Guam, USA Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:34:32 AM

[up]But there was so little lead-up or clues within the plot or campaign overall. It was either Joseph's visions and preachings about the Collapse, or those random radio broadcasts about how the world was quickly going to hell in a handbasket, which during my first playthrough almost never played; nothing else in the game gave clues that WWIII was imminent.

Hell at first my theory was that the Peggies were the ones responsible for the nukes and not some international exchange. A cult trying to create the very apocalypse they preached of made FAR more sense - they did own two decommissioned nuclear missile complexes (the third bunker was part of a hydro-electric damn), and had the ability to brainwash individuals into being perfect manchurian agents. Wouldn't be beyond the stretch of imagination to believe that they got their hands on some abandoned nuclear material, made three dirty bomb nukes, and "recruited" some military or law enforcement staff to help gather any missing necessary bomb components, maybe even trigger them on command, in hopes of triggering WWIII. It would also explain why Hope County, a supposedly isolated region of Montana, would even be targeted so heavily. But nope... apparently the valley had some tactical value to somebody, and a random prophecy who absolutely nobody took seriously turned out to be the truth. Talk about Diablo Ex-Machina.

Edited by SgtRicko on Dec 8th 2018 at 12:36:14 AM

Would you believe I never fully watched the original Indiana Jones trilogy? I gotta correct that someday.
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:50:30 AM

I think they should have thrown more clues that Joseph actually was supernatural. This is Far Cry which is a Magical Realism universe after all. As such, they kept the truth from the player too much.

It would have made more interesting of a story that Joseph is a multifacted character with insane followers.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
Dirtyblue929 Armchair Developer from Secret Bunker Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Armchair Developer
Dec 7th 2018 at 10:28:52 AM

I'm setting up a page for Far Cry: New Dawn, but I'm kind of shit at actually creating pages and all the work that goes into it, especially indexing, so any help is appreciated.

Speaking of which, here's an extended look at the game and a bit of its story:

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Dec 7th 2018 at 10:49:32 AM

"Oh, no; I'm not brave enough for politics."
Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Dec 7th 2018 at 1:08:05 PM

This game looks... a little cheerier than I imagined. I was expecting something like Rage.

Edited by Soble on Dec 7th 2018 at 1:08:15 AM

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
Dirtyblue929 Armchair Developer from Secret Bunker Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Armchair Developer
Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Dec 7th 2018 at 3:14:53 PM

Indeed. And I don't really know how to feel about that because Rage's sequel is basically Borderlands 2, which I adore, but I don't think Far Cry needed to go in that direction. I'm tickled pink because, hey, continuity, and I didn't hate Far Cry 5's ending (mind, didn't play through it either) so it's interesting to see one of the endings further explored.

I was just expecting a more somber tone.

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:13:45 PM

I would assume, with the complaints about how dark FC 5's ending was and how 'Nothing mattered, everything sucks, why did we bother?' people felt, they POTENTIALLY shifted gears as a somber post-apocalyptic setting (ala The Road which I hated) would have just kept that feeling going further when FC 5 is really supposed to be fun and light at times.

I also don't like the ending because I worry that it'll become this move that's too big to ignore and not something the rest of the series should be beholden too. Admitedly, the series was light on continuity, but they also took place in their own bubbles. Now we have this big nuke that decimates all of the other game's endings.

Sure, the kids survived Far Cry 3, but I guess that matters not as they'll all die a few years later anyway and Jason will be still mentally destroyed.

...Actually, Jason appearing in New Dawn might be interesting.

Edited by InkDagger on Dec 7th 2018 at 6:15:59 AM

CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:28:39 PM

I assume Kyrat and Rook Island weren't hit by nukes.

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 7th 2018 at 6:32:02 PM

The reports we do have (The vague ones that not all players heard) suggest a global conflict of some kind so I don't know if we really can say Kyrat wasn't spared in it.

As for Rook Islands, I couldn't really care. The ending doesn't center on the islands anyway as the goal is to leave them behind and get home, which DID get bombed in the endings. And if middle of nowhere Montana got no less than three nukes, that doesn't look good for the rest of the world.

Soble College Professor from Blackwell Academy Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
College Professor
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:13:23 PM

I would assume, with the complaints about how dark FC 5's ending was and how 'Nothing mattered, everything sucks, why did we bother?' people felt, they POTENTIALLY shifted gears as a somber post-apocalyptic setting (ala The Road which I hated) would have just kept that feeling going further when FC 5 is really supposed to be fun and light at times.

Did these complaints not exist when our choices consisted of:

  • Kill all of Jason's friends and get him killed, or leave with said friends but Jason is permanently scarred and outright says he won't heal from his experiences.
  • Kill one extremist leader and put another into power, sacrifice a little girl, kill your stepdad, or let your stepdad roam free to the spoils of a criminal empire.

I find it hard to believe that:

  • arrest crazy cult leader moments before he turns out to not be so crazy, or let said leader go and potentially murder your comrades who you'd only just rescued

demanded a massive tonal shift. I'd slap whichever one of my staffers so much as suggested that. I'd have sooner believed New Dawn was just a for-fun DLC like the alien abduction one, or that cheesy 70's action romp one from 3.

Meanwhile, Borderlands 3 seems farther and farther away Q_Q a

Edited by Soble on Dec 7th 2018 at 7:17:49 AM

I was just wondering... if you'd like to spend the rest of your life in my Dark Room.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 7th 2018 at 7:31:18 PM

They kind of did, but they weren't that bad because something was gained at a loss in the endings and they tonally matched the rest of the game.

Far Cry 3 was an exploration of a Video Game protagonist and the affect of taking a normal white-bred American boy who'd barely had to do much of anything, trapping him on an island where his friends are held captive by the crazy and colorful locals, giving him a gun, and telling him to go at it. As the game progresses, Jason's psyche starts deterioriating as he seems to enjoy (much like the gamers do) the ulta-violent life style compared to the life he is fighting to return to in the first place. The choices fit naturally into the progression of character; Either you give into the animalistic instinct or you say no and return to your normal life and either comes at a cost. Jason gives into his new life and kills his friends, only for said new life to bite back and kill him rather quickly. Or he saves his friends at the cost of having to live with the damage he's already done to himself trying to earn that life back. Tonally, they meshed together and there was still a lingering ambiguity in the "Good" ending on how mostly everything will probably turn out ok, but the characters are changed from the experience.

For reference, Lord of the Flies deals with a similar theme even if I didn't like that book much.

In Far Cry 5, both endings lead to a downer where your goal is left incomplete no matter what. Either you take Joseph's offer and go off hoping to get help and end up murdering your friends due to a Chekhov's Gun from earlier, or you refuse to bow down to the monster and fight him in probably the most blatant 'Power of Friendship' Boss I've seen in a game recently and... fail anyway because some bombs from an unknown 3rd party go off and interupt just as you're about to complete your goal and those bombs make everything worse.

It doesn't mesh with the themes. The themes built up thus far have been about the power of friendship and community. That, despite differences, people can genuinely come together in times of crisis to help and do some good against the overpowering opressive evil that is out there. You get genuine moments like helping deliver Nick's baby and getting named the god father/mother and or putting on the Teste Festy because people need hope and joy in really dark times. I'd argue the gameplay also lends itself to how, despite the evil of the people in it, the world is still beautiful and peaceful on its own.

They're not quite the themes that I would have taken the story in, or at least not the execution of it, but they're good themes and they do work for the most part. But the endings don't mesh with the ideas. They don't take it to their natural conclusion. I don't mind the 'Leave' option as being a downer ending as it could arguably fit a theme of 'Abandoning the community of friends and family leads to destruction', but 'Resist' fits the themes of the rest of the game perfectly (until the bombs go off), yet ends on the bleakest note of all three endings. You could have done nothing the entire game or, worse, died in the first act and really nothing would have changed.

I also think that having the 'Best' ending being one where you just outright don't play is a mistake and something that, while maybe I don't mind on paper, is a really hard sell and kind of undermines the point of a game. I don't think its totally unworkable, but it does miss the mark since, examining all three endings, it feels more like the game suggests that its better for people to do nothing in the face of great evil rather than step in and do what is right.

Edited by InkDagger on Dec 7th 2018 at 7:35:03 AM

SgtRicko from Guam, USA Relationship Status: Hounds of love are hunting
Dec 7th 2018 at 8:47:06 PM

[up]The "Do nothing" ending certainly works in the context of Kyrat's screwed up political environment. The Golden Path are doomed to become just as bad as Pagan Min's regime anyways, and by not doing anything "brave" at the beginning you not only get the answers you sought, but are accepted by Min AND might even have a shot at gaining the throne in the future (assuming you believe Ajay is sort who's willing to accept or seize power when given the opportunity... kinda iffy, since he doesn't talk or state his beliefs and intentions often).

Would you believe I never fully watched the original Indiana Jones trilogy? I gotta correct that someday.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
Dec 7th 2018 at 8:52:20 PM

Ajay's dialog would make it seem he's quite noble and enjoys helping people at least

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Dirtyblue929 Armchair Developer from Secret Bunker Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Armchair Developer
Dec 7th 2018 at 9:04:40 PM

[up][up] I agree that it works for Kyrat, where the whole point of the plot is basically that every side in the conflict is bad for the country and Ajay's best choice is to just get out while he can. But I agree with Ink in that it doesn't mesh well with Far Cry 5's themes at all.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Dec 7th 2018 at 9:06:45 AM

"Oh, no; I'm not brave enough for politics."
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Dec 7th 2018 at 9:26:01 PM

The nuclear war is stated to involve the USA, China, and Russia.

We should also note Montana is a major nuclear target in RL because, well, like in the game it's the center for much of America's ICBM collection.

As for Far Cry 5, I always felt it was just, "War turns men into savages." There's never a perfect answer since fighting is a fail state and peace is often death.

Mind you, the "don't arrest Joseph at the start of the game" results in Joseph's band entering their nuclear bunkers during the attack and the war never beginning because they never attack the town.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 7th 2018 at 9:28:12 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
InkDagger Relationship Status: Dancing with Captain Jack Harkness
Dec 8th 2018 at 1:26:25 AM

[up]x5

I was talking about Far Cry 5 "Do Nothing" ending. I don't actually know enough about Far Cry 4's story and endings to really comment on it. My understanding is that both sides are a different shade of evil and its more or less which one you're willing to tolerate more than the other. Which, fine idea in concept, but I don't think it works in practice all the time. Mostly because people take it to a 'Will you choose the baby eaters or the people who turn people into sex slaves?" extreme that isn't interesting or particuarly good writing.

FluffyMcChicken Not a Crook, Never a Quitter, Needed Now from where Dicky can get Tricky with you! Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Not a Crook, Never a Quitter, Needed Now
Dec 8th 2018 at 6:54:11 PM

There is also simply the fact that 5's canon ending results in the series' only victorious villain being a straight white American Christian man while the others - the cynical but ultimately altruistic Jackal who actually can give his life to save a column of refugees, the Hispanic Vaas, and the biracial Asian Min - can be moreorless defeated in one of the optional endings.

Edited by FluffyMcChicken on Dec 8th 2018 at 6:56:02 AM

You can call me queen bee . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeBihoUS3W8
CharlesPhipps Author from Ashland, Ky Relationship Status: Lovey-Dovey
Author
Dec 8th 2018 at 10:06:49 PM

I think that's stretching things due to the fact:

1. Pagan Min can escape free and clear

2. Joseph doesn't "win" because his cult, family, and world is all killed. Even in the ending where he "wins" he's a Pyrrhic Victory at best.

Or are we just assuming he doesn't care about:

1. Saving anyone

2. His family

Despite 1 and 2 being stated to be his goals repeatedly.

Arguably, he suffers a Fate Worse than Death.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Dec 8th 2018 at 10:07:43 AM

Author of The Supervillainy Saga, Cthulhu Armageddon, The United States of Monsters, and Lucifer's Star.
Dirtyblue929 Armchair Developer from Secret Bunker Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
Armchair Developer
Dec 8th 2018 at 10:08:24 PM

[up] Yeah, Joseph loses in two of the three endings. It's just that everyone else loses just as badly, if not worse.

Edited by Dirtyblue929 on Dec 8th 2018 at 10:08:51 AM

"Oh, no; I'm not brave enough for politics."

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