MARVEL's Cloak and Dagger---A Freeform (ABC Family) Original Series

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I don't know why, but I am really excited for this one. I just have the feeling that I will really like the characters, and based on the trailors, they seem to have put a lot of effort into the show.

I am looking forward to it, but I'm worried about all the destiny and divine pairing stuff. I'd prefer it to be just about two kids who happen to have compatible powers by sheer chance.

Yeah, I hope that they don't get overboard with that. I mean, they managed to make me interested in a freaking romance (and I usually look for shows which aren't romance focussed), but I think my patience for a star crossed lover set-up is limited.

So, watched it, liked it. I hope it does well.

I enjoyed this more than I thought I would. I hope the romance aspects don't get too overpowering in later episodes. I also hope they have a decent antagonist. If it's just them vs generic evil corporation I'm not sure how much depth the story will have.

I definitely enjoyed it. They haven't gotten to the destiny part, which I'm taking as a good sign that it probably won't be too overpowering. I also really like that Tandy's boyfriend isn't an asshole. It's all too common for the Romantic False Lead to be a horrible person so the male lead only has to be average to look like the better person.

This was billed as a romance. A supernatural romance, sure, but still a romance first and foremost. Don't get your hopes up that it will be moved to the background. As for antagonists, right now we've only got the cop, but she seems reasonable (I have a feeling those two guys told her that their friend was about to rape Tandy, so at least she's not going to try to hit her with an assault charge), so I doubt she'll be a long-term enemy. Or maybe she will. Tandy has been stealing for years, and Tyrone did try to shoot a cop. Maybe they'll keep the stakes low and the antagonist mundane.

Oh wait, the whole destiny thing and saving New Orleans from catastrophe. Hm. Well, maybe the major threat can remain faceless, while the cop is the mundane danger that causes problems while they're dealing with the supernatural?

It's a romance. Naturally the romance will take centre stage eventually (I hope soon because honestly, those two are more interesting in the scenes in which they interact with each other than on their own), but to the credit of the show, they have managed to side-step a lot of the usual BS which is so off-putting about teen dramas quite neatly.

I was mostly talking about the stupid melodrama a lot of CW shows engage in. If this show avoids that it should be good.

Well, based on Ao S, Marvel TV has a pretty good track record regarding this, but this is another team of writers, so I guess we have to go by what is already there, and what is already there looks good. None of the drama in those two episodes felt forced.

I haven't watched any Freeform shows recently, so I don't know what their track record is on romance, but the CW is pretty much the worst, except for Lifetime. It might get bad, but it won't get that bad.

The CW and bad romance go together like peanut butter and jelly. Given the presence of the Arrowverse, it’s no wonder people are iffy about romance in superhero shows. No one wants another Felicity.

Marvel loves evil businessmen as villains.

Speaking of antagonists, who (if any) are the main villains for C&D in the comics? I've never read many comics with them, only multi-character crossovers with lots of other superheroes, so I dont know who their main threat is and who it may end up being on the show.

Not an expert either, but if I understand it correctly, they don't really have their own villains aside from the organisation which created them (which, I guess, are replaced by Roxxon in the show). The threats they are up against are more of the social political nature...you know, drugs, street crime aso. Hence their villains are more along the line of drug dealers.

For my part I don't know much about Cloak and Dagger but I get the distinct impression no particular individuals ever stick around, but the The Maggia (i.e the sci-fi/supernatural Italian mob of the Marvel Universe) as a broad organization seem to be reocurring.

In these last few years there's been a reocurring push to turn Spider-Man villain Mr. Negative into a arch enemy of sorts for Cloak & Dagger with varying levels of success. For my part, I actually think it's a surprisingly brilliant idea (considering the character was conceived as entirely unconnected to them), with Mr. Negative/Martin Li (the two personalities of Mr. Negative) mirroring the couple Cloak and Dagger in both personality and powers (Negative and Li have almost exactly the same as Cloak's and Dagger's powersets). Plus, Mr. Negative is a crimelord and drug dealer, which matches quite nicely with the things C&D fight.

The question is whether Marvel has the right to use Negative or not, particularly now with the Spider-Man deal.

edited 9th Jun '18 2:11:30 PM by Gaon

The closest they had to a main villain was Silvio Manfredi aka Silvermane, an aging gangster.

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Silvio_Manfredi_(Earth-616)

Silvermane is also a Spidey villain. Hewas one of the main baddies of the old cartoon, constantly fighting with the Kingpin. And well, he’s in Daredevil.

Marvel sold the movie rights, not the TV right, so at least theoretically they can use whoever they want in TV. There is just this stupid law suit of Fox hanging over them which had this settlement of Marvel not being able to do TV shows which take advantage of the success of the movies. I think Sony had the TV rights for a while, but they are back with Marvel now.

So I guess Marvel can use whoever they want, they just have to be careful about it. I doubt though that Sony would be bothered by them using...Mr Negative?...honestly, I have never heard about the guy.

But for now, I think Roxxon and various crime organisations will be the big Bads....

Mr. Negative is a fairly recent villain, who was created circa 2010 for the soft-reboot of spiderman after "One More Day" (i.e when mephisto saved aunt may, stole Pete's marriage and retconned Spidey's history), debuting as a central antagonist in "Brand New Day". He became a sort of Ensemble Dark Horse and his popularity skyrocketed until he became a premiere among the new villains, and his popularity branched out into Mr. Negative and Cloak and Dagger.

He's currently being used in the upcoming Spider-Man game as a main antagonist.

I liked the feel of this: two young people from similarly rough backgrounds, Light Is Not Good for Dagger (can't recall her name, Tabia? Tamia?), Dark Is Not Evil for Tyrone. There's no clear antagonist yet besides Roxxon I suppose, and the cop Tyrone was after. Definitely not a typical superhero story. Feels closer to a modern day Romeo and Juliet.

One thing that bugged me was the lighting. I guess since the leads have light and dark-themed powers, the visuals are trying to convey that with lots of shadows, but I can barely see what's happening during Cloak's scenes.

I like what they did with his blanket in the rooftop scene. And the part where he tried to escape from the locker room by hiding under a tarp.

Anyway, I'm a little more engaged with Cloak, but it's refreshing to see a flawed character like Dagger. I'm interested to see where she goes from here.

I guess their powers are more linked than they initially seemed. Tyrone teleporting to Dagger before he opened fire was weird.

edited 10th Jun '18 8:40:21 AM by Soble

I'm more connected with Dagger, but I guess it is a matter of taste, I like both of them.

Sadly why might never get to see much of a villain gallery in the show either way...I just checked the ratings. Oooch. If the show doesn't pick up some viewers, it looks bad for it.

I wish there was more excitement for it, because it looks really, really good.

The main problem is that they have made Dagger really.. Evil? Seriously, she fucks over everyone who crosses her path, gets telepathic proof her boyfriend is approximately infinitely loyal and decides to leave him to rot in jail. Just, what? How are they planning to turn her into someone we can root for? Telepathic powers eventually makes being a complete asshole too personally painful for her, so she stops doing it? And is that sincere reform?

At this point, the most credible way for her to become a hero without a complete personality transplant would be an epiphany that drugdealers have lots of cash lying around and cant report you ripping them off.

edited 10th Jun '18 10:31:38 AM by Izeinsummer

Eh, she is a broken person who habitually runs away from pretty much everything? Hearing other people hopes should help her. Though I guess hearing other people fears will f... up Cloak pretty badly down the line.

Hopefully it will lead to empathy instead. Like that cop's worst nightmare is the time he shot Tyrone's brother. He clearly sees that as a terrible mistake, even if he's running in the wrong direction on the subject. Tyrone's big problem is that he just drifts through life, doing what he's told, and negative emotions he isn't even aware of keep bubbling out. Seeing the negative emotions other people are hiding could help.

Tandy, of course, is the opposite, running away from everything, violently refusing to do what she is told under any circumstances, and failing to see the good in anyone. Her ability to literally see the good in people should help.