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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#201: Mar 21st 2017 at 1:00:43 PM

[up] The visuals are most likely the biggest reason why so many people perceive it as "worse". There are ideas, but they aren't fully realize...it also didn't help that the other Defenders already hogged large part of the colour palette (Daredevil Red and Orange - and white for the Kingpin, Jessica Jones blue and purple and Luke Cage Yellow and even more red), so Iron Fist decided to go with Grey (for Danny), Light blue (for the Corporate world/the Mechums), and Gold and warm brown for stuff related to the Hand. Which actually works (I especially love how Harrold sits in the light blue arch which is practically under pressure by all the gold of his luxury prison), but then the show forgets the last step to make Kunlun a vibrant green (instead of more grey and a lot of white) in order to built a contrast and perhaps set up a reason for Danny to eventually go more with the green in future instalments instead of the grey.

Yeah, I think way too much about stuff like this.

The problem is mostly that the show is a little bit inconsistent...as if some ideas weren't fully realized when they started shooting, so they are present in certain episodes, but not in all of them. Like I said, the blend overs are only done in the first episodes and then they suddenly stop for no real reason. The elevator fight suddenly uses a split screen and then it isn't used again until episode 12 and that is only once and really looks out of place (honestly, they should have either done it properly or not at all). They do a great job turning Gao into a shadow figure (not that the reveal was in any way a surprise, but at least it looked cool), but the same technique isn't used anywhere else, even though I would have loved to see a fight scene made only out of shadows.

edited 21st Mar '17 1:04:43 PM by Swanpride

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#202: Mar 21st 2017 at 1:01:37 PM

I think what would have really helped this show is if they did something like Arrow — had regular flashbacks to Danny's time in K'un L'un, not only flesh out his character, but also K'un L'un and that whole mythology and even see kid Davos.

[up] Yeah, they really needed a better color palette. Green and gold would have worked so well for the entire show (especially since that's Danny's costume colors).

edited 21st Mar '17 1:02:34 PM by alliterator

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#203: Mar 21st 2017 at 1:06:34 PM

[up] wouldn't have worked. Arrow got away with it because the Island is practical empty, especially in the first season. Kunlun needed to be a living, breathing place, that would have gone way over budget. Since the budget wasn't there, they should have sit down and thought about alternatives.

The blue and grey was fitting for the corporate scenes, but I think more green on Danny would have underlined his outsider status more. But not pure green...more a mix of colour to show that he feels split between Kunlun and New York.

edited 21st Mar '17 1:08:04 PM by Swanpride

iamthecircle Pretentious Scholar of English from The Armpit of the Bible Belt Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
Pretentious Scholar of English
#204: Mar 21st 2017 at 1:08:43 PM

[up][up] [up] Nice observations! You have a good eye. I think you are totally right about green lighting should be used for K'un L'un, especially since a good green has been used to indicate otherwordliness before.

[up][up]It actually makes me upset when I think about it. They really shortchanged Danny, by trying to keep that mostly a mystery. He's a little less developed, because we don't even know why he left, or start asking the question till in the later half of the season. And him leaving seems to be a pretty crucial part of his character. Whenever they would be talking about things, I kept thinking how nice it would be to see it. Like Davos and Danny racing donkey carts or something. Have scenes of the happy fun stuff in K'un L'un, and also show how rigid it can be with the strict emotional discipline, and physical abuse. Like showing a young Danny who's never done hard work in his privileged life climbing the mountain for his water for the first time.

edited 21st Mar '17 1:09:24 PM by iamthecircle

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#205: Mar 21st 2017 at 9:08:27 PM

I can't hear Lei Kung without hearing Splinter. Turns out they're played by the same guy.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#206: Mar 21st 2017 at 10:02:07 PM

See, to me, Splinter is Elmo.

But that's cause I was always more into the movies than the various animated series.

On an actual Iron Fist note, I was rewatching Episode 4 and I actually love the hallway fight scene-its radically different from Daredevil's Season 1 hallway fight and I think that was the point. Its stylized, brightly lit, not as brutal, and most importantly, fun.

I mean, you can't have an elevator door close-screen wipe scene where Joy visibly hurts her hand by punching a guy and not have some fun.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#207: Mar 22nd 2017 at 12:52:54 AM

[up] All good points...I still hate the way it is cut. It is so hard to see what is actually going on. And the use of the split screen makes no sense to me for a scene which happens in a freaking elevator! I think one time they used it, it is not even used to show what Joy and Danny do at the same time, but to show something Danny does from different angles...I might be wrong though.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#208: Mar 22nd 2017 at 1:11:25 AM

I always love to see the Axe Gang, so the fight was fun for me too.

edited 22nd Mar '17 1:12:21 AM by KnownUnknown

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#209: Mar 22nd 2017 at 7:42:22 AM

I was actually wondering if it was supposed to be a reference to Kung Fu Hustle.

The show would have been much improved if Danny found the Axe Gang doing this once he went into their hideout.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#210: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:20:10 AM

I mean, the show would have been much better if they did the entire thing like Kung Fu Hustle. Hell, that movie even had magical kung fu moves like the Iron Fist.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#211: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:52:53 AM

I've seen that "dual hatchet wielding Japanese gangster" in a few other places outside of Kung Fu Hustle too. I wonder if it's more of a cultural reference.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#212: Mar 22nd 2017 at 8:59:51 AM

[up] They're Chinese. Yakuza is Japanese, Triads are Chinese. They're the Triads, as observed by the fact Danny speaks to them in their natural language (Danny doesn't seem to speak Japanese, only Mandarin).

As it so appears, the concept of Axe-wielding Chinese gangsters is an old cliché of Chinese cinema but Kung Fu Hustle seems to be the most well-known example outside of China.

If I had to guess though, they got the Axe Gang from Drunken Master II, given Zhou Cheng (the Drunken Master in the show) is clearly a reference to that movie and the Axe Gang is in that.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#213: Mar 22nd 2017 at 9:46:34 AM

They are not axes. They are hatchets.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#214: Mar 22nd 2017 at 9:58:54 AM

Though if you want to get technical the Axe Gang of Kung Fu Hustle and Drunken Master II also use hatchets rather than axes.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Bongi from Somewhere Since: Dec, 2016
#215: Mar 22nd 2017 at 10:10:09 AM

Just finished it, it wasn't that bad. Out of the MCU Netflix shows it's definitely the weakest tho. Just a couple of things that bothered me.

They should have hired someone with actual martial arts experience. Finn Jones didn't really represent the insane amount of skill Danny is supposed to have. Daredevil seems to be more proficient than him.

They should have developed the whole giant hole plot from Daredevil further. Actually give us some small indications of how dangerous the Hand is. While watching I found myself asking how these guys are gonna be any kind of physical threat to Luke and Jessica.

Also is Madame Gao actually a member of the Hand or is she just partnering with them?

Boom...
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#216: Mar 22nd 2017 at 10:37:58 AM

They should have developed the whole giant hole plot from Daredevil further. Actually give us some small indications of how dangerous the Hand is. While watching I found myself asking how these guys are gonna be any kind of physical threat to Luke and Jessica.

Luke will be an issue for them at first, but considering the crazy mystical shit the hand have at their disposal, once they get over the initial craziness of his unbreakable skin, I'm betting they'll find some way to deal with him. He'll be the hardest to deal with, but they'll figure out something.

Jessica is strong, but completely lacks the level of invulnerability Luke has, and the level of skill that Matt and Danny have. If she can tag them, she can take them out easily, but she has to tag them, and someone as unskilled as she is will be in a lot of trouble.

As for the Axe gang, I remember them from Drunken Master II / The Legend of Drunken Master, and I saw that before I saw Kung Fun Hustle. I think that the Axe Gang was some kind of staple gang back during the era both movies take place in, and Iron Fist drew on that general concept rather than directly homaging either movie.

edited 22nd Mar '17 10:38:10 AM by HandsomeRob

One Strip! One Strip!
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#217: Mar 22nd 2017 at 10:40:22 AM

Jessica is the best detective of the bunch, though.

If there is anything Iron Fist did better than Daredevil, it is the Hand.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#218: Mar 22nd 2017 at 10:41:27 AM

Giant Literal Plot Hole apparently shows up in Episode 1 of the Defenders. What happens to it I don't know, the Entertainment Weekly article didn't say.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#219: Mar 22nd 2017 at 10:45:59 AM

I'm very glad Defenders will be shorter than the other series-despite having more characters by nature, I still think 13 hour long episodes is too much for what the shows have been doing so far-the momentum tends to wear thin after a while, for me.

Also apparently Sigourney Weaver is the villain, but its too soon for me to deal if she's a comics character or not.

iamthecircle Pretentious Scholar of English from The Armpit of the Bible Belt Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
Pretentious Scholar of English
#220: Mar 22nd 2017 at 10:55:55 AM

I heard somewhere the episodes of The Defenders will be longer though. I hope that isn't bullshit, but it sounds like they are doing the Go T thing where they have fewer, but longer episodes to help with budget costs. That's the impression I've gotten at least.

Jessica, despite her super strength, really is probably the weakest combatant of the four. Her show had the least amount of action, and The Hand has raw numbers. I imagine Jessica would struggle if she was attacked by a large group. She's just as squishy as Danny or Matt, and probably doesn't have the defensive moves. Also I bet Danny will get better action sequences in The Defenders. At least that's what I have my fingers crossed for. A scene with him and Matt fighting off ninjas has to be cool right?

RavenWilder Since: Apr, 2009
#221: Mar 22nd 2017 at 11:10:47 AM

People say they should have gotten someone who knew martial arts to play Danny, but another solution would have been to actually give him the Iron Fist costume, that way a martial arts trained stunt double could take his place during fight scenes, like they do on Daredevil.

iamthecircle Pretentious Scholar of English from The Armpit of the Bible Belt Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
Pretentious Scholar of English
#223: Mar 22nd 2017 at 11:36:35 AM

[up] He must need to hibernate by now. He shot the Defenders immediately after that, but that show is said to have a much better filming schedule by the actors.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#224: Mar 22nd 2017 at 11:55:34 AM

A better editing would help too....Come on, there is no way that they didn't use a stuntman in the scenes where Danny wore the festival mask (I still don't know what celebration that was....might be useful to know to pin down the timeline), or whenever he had the hoody up, or in the scenes where the fighters were more shadows than anything else. And they still chopped the whole thing up. Not just in the action scenes.

There is this great scene early on when Gao punishes the underling who lost against Danny. Both figures just dark shadows in front of an opening, the rain is falling in the background. It is one of the most beautiful shots they ever did on any Netflix shows...and then they suddenly change the camera angle, just so that the audience can see the blood, and jump back again for a split second, instead of showing the whole punishment from one perspective. Someone working on a show had a really good eye when it comes to camera angles and blocking, but whenever such a shot pops up, the audience is unable to enjoy it because the camera immediately cuts away, during the fight scenes, but also in some other moments.

Izeinsummer Since: Jun, 2013
#225: Mar 22nd 2017 at 2:16:21 PM

Eh, prep time works both ways. And well, if Jessica knows the problem is "lots of ninjas", there are pretty hard counters she could use. She could, for example, probably move just fine while wearing 300 kilos of armor plating. Did you bring the anti-tank missiles? No? you loose. (I.. just kind of want to see hung over Jessica beating scrap-metal into a suit of armor with her fists)

edited 22nd Mar '17 2:16:43 PM by Izeinsummer


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