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edited to add this information, since this is going to be a long clean-up

Donald Trump, as with any other current political figure, should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except:

  • When the work in question specifically mentions the RL individual.
  • When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
  • When the work is fictional.

All three of these must apply.

Alternatively:

  • When the RL individual has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work. In this sense we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.

Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of "Funny Aneurysm" Moment, Harsher in Hindsight, or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding these political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.

We're starting with the wicks to Donald Trump (There were 751 of them at the starting point of this count.)

Wicks have already been checked and cleared up to

2/14/17 Inherent in the System

Given the current political climate, talking about Donald Trump on this Wiki is a very sensitive topic and pretty much any comment on him could easily end up violating the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment. I talked it over on Ask a Troper and a moderator gave me permission to start this topic. I feel it will be necessary to make sure any mention of him is safe and avoids politically charged or biased opinions. Right now, we need to stick to facts, not opinions.

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 27th 2024 at 12:49:26 PM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#701: Nov 2nd 2020 at 10:20:36 PM

Would it be safe to add Saturday Night Live frequently depicting Trump as one of the worst people ever despite allowing him to host and continually defending that decision as Undermined By Reality? It's something that was widely criticized as making it harder to take the show's commentary seriously, and doesn't necessarily have to be written with the assumption we also think Trump as bad - just that it contradicts the show's most popular running theme in recent sketches.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 2nd 2020 at 1:21:13 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#702: Nov 3rd 2020 at 2:45:56 AM

[up]It would depend on how the example is written.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#703: Nov 3rd 2020 at 9:13:34 AM

  • Saturday Night Live gained a reputation for making fun of Donald Trump during his presidency, with most sketches depicting him as a complete fool and the worst president ever. It's a bit odd to remember that Trump hosted SNL in 2015, indicating they didn't hate him so much to not give him a platform while he was still a candidate.

There's more to be said about whether SNL's platform increased his chance at winning the presidency but I tried to make the write-up as neutral as possible.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 3rd 2020 at 12:14:19 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
ryanasaurus0077 Since: Jul, 2009
#704: Nov 4th 2020 at 6:20:40 PM

If and when Trump loses the election, this could be a possible Role-Ending Misdemeanor for him:

  • Trump's own luck appears to have run out as of the 2020 election, where his constant insults towards John McCain, who as mentioned with the Kelli Ward and Kelly Sadler examples is considered a Sacred Cow in Arizona, would come back to haunt him as Arizona voters turned out at high rates and flipped the state to the Democrats.

I didn't come up with this one, I just heard it from a few fellow Tropers in the election watch thread. Plus, there may be other factors as well.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#705: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:00:36 PM

Pretty sure Role-Ending Misdemeanor doesn't count if it's the result of a vote. If he loses the presidency because he got voted out, the cause is because he got voted out. It's speculative to connect it to a specific behavior.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#706: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:20:36 PM

Besides, there's like... a lot of reasons why people voted for Biden over Trump. Tying it to one specific thing he did seems like a gross oversimplification of the factors influencing the 2020 election.

ryanasaurus0077 Since: Jul, 2009
#707: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:45:15 PM

Which is something I've acknowledged. Another factor might have been his relentless attacks on Gretchen Whitmer after a foiled kidnapping plot against her by far-right anarchists. I can't really name another off the top of my head at this point, but I also got that one from the election watch thread.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#708: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:54:38 PM

I feel like there's just way too many factors to Trump's potential (because it's still not confirmed) loss to boil it down to a single recent issue. I also personally don't think Role-Ending Misdemeanor should cover politicians who were voted out rather than directly fired as a result of controversies.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 4th 2020 at 10:54:53 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
ryanasaurus0077 Since: Jul, 2009
#709: Nov 4th 2020 at 7:54:53 PM

Anyway, here's my next draft:

  • Trump himself was considered incredibly lucky by both sides of the aisle, to the point where detractors started to nickname him "the Teflon Don"... until the 2020 election, where he lost to Joe Biden in what was otherwise a tepid election year for the Democrats. While this trope wasn't 100% the reason why he lost, at least a couple of things made it a factor:
    • His constant insults towards John McCain, who as mentioned with the Kelli Ward and Kelly Sadler examples is considered a Sacred Cow in Arizona, would come back to haunt him as Arizona voters turned out at high rates and flipped the state to the Democrats.
    • Just a month before the election, Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer was targeted for kidnapping by far-right anarchists who didn't even like Trump. Trump responded by relentlessly attacking Whitmer. Evidently, this didn't sit well with Michiganders, who turned out in droves and cost him the state.

Any other potential REMs I might've missed this time around? Any way I could make the overall tone more neutral?

Edited by ryanasaurus0077 on Nov 4th 2020 at 10:56:03 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#710: Nov 4th 2020 at 8:03:09 PM

The fact this is basically a List of Transgressions further goes against the idea that this is a Role-Ending Misdemeanor because there's just too many factors. I also think that the entry would need to focus on stuff in his personal life, not political stuff.

Combined with the debate we previously had on the So Bad It's Horrible thread, I'm concerned that you're a bit trigger-happy to add Trump material to trope pages, especially since both times, you've wanted to add these entries before the event in question was even over.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 4th 2020 at 11:04:19 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
ryanasaurus0077 Since: Jul, 2009
#711: Nov 4th 2020 at 8:08:05 PM

Replying to mightymewtron's previous post: in a way, the people are the boss, and if they decide they don't like the job their politician(s) are doing, they gather at the polling stations on Election Day to tell said politician(s) rather loudly, "You're fired." This happened with Pat McCrory after he signed a blatantly transphobic bill into law, and with Gerald R. Ford after he initially refused to assist New York City during the big blackout. If there are clear factors of their own making that cause them to underperform, and said factors are either of the illegal or offensive variety, then the way I see it they likely fell victim to a REM on or just after Election Day.

Edited by ryanasaurus0077 on Nov 4th 2020 at 11:10:08 AM

Serac she/her (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
she/her
#712: Nov 4th 2020 at 10:13:33 PM

First off, the votes haven't all been counted yet. Wait for a definitive result to be called first.

But anyway, the issue here is that a Role-Ending Misdemeanor needs to be a single incident, and there's way too many incidents in this case. We're not saying there aren't "clear factors of their own making" here, it's that for REM to apply, there should only be one clear factor.

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#713: Nov 4th 2020 at 11:59:29 PM

Also, I am wary of applying Role-Ending Misdemeanor to an election result because an election is an aggregate outcome of millions - in this case at least 70 millions - of decisions and not all of them will be because of a "misdemeanor". That and the ROCEJ issues. I am inclined to strongly say [tdown]

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#714: Nov 7th 2020 at 11:37:26 AM

Now that Biden has officially been elected, does this mean the cleanup will slow down and we'll be able to re-add some of the old Trump examples? Or are we still gonna give it some time?

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#715: Nov 7th 2020 at 12:06:45 PM

I think the recency standard officially runs out once Biden is instated as president and Trump's presidency is officially over, so we still need to wait until at least late January, but a lot of examples still probably don't quite pass the ROCEJ.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 7th 2020 at 3:07:01 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#716: Nov 7th 2020 at 1:33:59 PM

Even once Biden enters the White House in January, we would still need to be wary of Trump (both positive and negative).

Perhaps once Trump fully retires from politics (given that he may run for president again in 2024)?

Kirby is awesome.
Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#717: Nov 10th 2020 at 6:02:38 PM

TheReasonYouSuckSpeech.Real Life:

  • After Trump's loss, Slate published a series of articles raking Trump officials over the coals for their failures.
    So long, Anonymous Republican Source, you omnipresent feature of countless stories about calumny and chaos in the West Wing, you utter, utter coward. By narrating the horrors of the Trump administration while never going on the record about any of them, you attempted to have it both ways: to play the hero while still remaining on the payroll of America’s greatest villain. You worked for a man who bashed “fake news” in public while you ran to reporters in private in your feeble attempts to soothe your guilty conscience (and/or advance your agenda amid the White House’s various eye-clawing factions). You participated in the degradation of countless democratic norms while maintaining the one norm that matters most in official Washington: the political insider’s right to never face consequences for saying what is really on their minds.

Awhile ago, I was told “The Reason You Suck” Speech has to be to the face of whoever it's directed at. If so it seems a lot of RL examples like this (article saying x sucks) might have to be removed. Thoughts?

bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#718: Nov 10th 2020 at 7:29:59 PM

[up] Whack 'em.

2025: the year it all ends?
DragonRanger (Troper Knight)
#719: Nov 10th 2020 at 7:43:39 PM

I recently noticed that Trump was referenced on Rookie Red Ranger. It does not, currently, have a ROCEJ violation; but I'm tempted to update it to account for his loss (and how being a "Rookie" worked against him) and want to make sure any adjustment is ROCEJ-friendly. Or it might be better to just cut it altogether.

  • It is becoming increasingly common in the US and similar countries for major political parties to nominate younger and/or less experienced members to major leadership positions, Donald Trump and Barack Obama being major examples. This is mostly due to the fact that more junior politicians and outsiders are unlikely to have been involved in any major party scandals and won't be seen as "tainted" by the voting public.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#720: Nov 10th 2020 at 7:49:51 PM

It's a general example either way. I'm not even sure if it counts under the trope definition, which seems to indicate a powerful spot on a team, not a position of leadership like president.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 10th 2020 at 10:50:07 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
AdeptGaderius Otaku from the Anime World Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Otaku
#721: Nov 10th 2020 at 11:02:39 PM

I found this hidden yet obvious violation of Rule of Cautious Editing Judgement through a Take That! on the page for George Takei.

In 2008, he married his partner of twenty years, journalist Brad Altman. Takei continues to be an advocate for civil rights, gay rights and Asian-American issuesnote .

Apparently, I checked up the page's history and I found out it was edited on July 26th 2020. Should I remove it?

Kappaclystica Since: Jan, 2019
#722: Nov 11th 2020 at 12:03:46 AM

The note is unneeded. Obliterate it.

MetroidPeter Med School Alumni from Somewhere Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
Med School Alumni
#723: Nov 12th 2020 at 10:53:35 AM

If the recent examples clause stops applying to Trump once he leaves office, are there any ideas as to which tropes should be added?

"You are what you choose to be." -Hogarth Hughes, The Iron Giant "You've got to fight to make a wish come true!" -Fantasy, The Pagemast
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#724: Nov 13th 2020 at 7:18:06 AM

Trump will certainly remain a "current political figure" for the near future. Trump examples will not suddenly become valid in January.

"Orange man bad" examples in 2021 should be treated the same way as "white woman bad" (for Hillary) in 2017, i.e. nuked.

Edited by RallyBot2 on Nov 13th 2020 at 10:18:57 AM

ryanasaurus0077 Since: Jul, 2009
#725: Nov 13th 2020 at 4:18:36 PM

I think the same should also apply to "orange man good" if we're also going to cut down on the "orange man bad" examples.


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