edited to add this information, since this is going to be a long clean-up
"Donald Trump, as with any other current political figure, should not be a subject of any trope example on the wiki, except:
- When the work in question specifically mentions the RL individual.
- When the entirety of the example has to do with the portrayal of that individual in the work.
- When the work is fictional.
All three of these must apply.
Alternatively:
- When the RL individual has a creative role themselves, such as writing or acting in a work. In this sense we give them no more nor less treatment then we would any other creator.
Additionally, please make sure to take out any examples of "Funny Aneurysm" Moment, Harsher in Hindsight, or Hilarious in Hindsight regarding these political figures. A political event that may be seen positively by some people may be seen negatively by others.
We're starting with the wicks to Donald Trump (There were 751 of them at the starting point of this count.)
Wicks have already been checked and cleared up to
2/14/17 Inherent in the System
Given the current political climate, talking about Donald Trump on this Wiki is a very sensitive topic and pretty much any comment on him could easily end up violating the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment. I talked it over on Ask a Troper and a moderator gave me permission to start this topic. I feel it will be necessary to make sure any mention of him is safe and avoids politically charged or biased opinions. Right now, we need to stick to facts, not opinions.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Jul 27th 2020 at 2:06:58 AM
Not sure where else to post this, buuuuuut......
- Acceptable Targets: During the hacking attacks in the first months of official service, some Japanese players were quick to blame western players, many clambering for an IP block of all players from outside of Japan. However, other Japanese players pushed back against this idea.
This is more of a real life example; than anything with how the game portrays certain people.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 8th 2020 at 1:48:29 PM
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No-lifer
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I'm pretty sure work pages (YMMV, Moments, and even the main trope page) should not be used to trope real people, so I'd say cut that example.
I saw this in Captain Obvious Aesop's description, and it was kind of bothering me for the longest time.
Also, some Aesops are uncontroversial when spoken as a plain statement, but have an implicit, less-widely-agreed-to message, such as "We're not yet doing enough about this." For example, it's easy to say "Bigotry is bad", but programs designed to help disadvantaged minorities, like affirmative action and hate crime legislation, are polarizing political issues with no clear right or wrong answers. Not to mention that even the most moral of people can get burnt out on idealism and start resenting the people they're still supposed to help as whiners and nuisances - and therefore, might have to learn to be compassionate all over again, or at least have their initial altruism reinforced.
TBH, I don't know how to feel about this... it feels kind of agenda-y
Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 9th 2020 at 2:21:58 PM
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Oh Captain!~
I agree the whole thing is weirdly agenda-y, but this... this is the part that really got me:
YIKES. Getting potholed to Feeling Oppressed by Their Existence does not help whatsoever.
Yes, compassion fatigue is a very real thing and a common issue in helping professions. I should know, I'm currently in college for those kinds of careers. However, the way the whole thing's worded, especially with the part I quoted being potholed to Feeling Oppressed by Their Existence, sounds like the whole thing's been posted in bad faith.
Hey how you doing well I'm doing just fine I lied I'm dying inside
The Draftsman of Doom
Cut this for being a possible ROCEJ violation.
- During the 2020 State of the Union address, Congressman Tim Ryan walked out of the speech and compared it to professional wrestling. Many real-life wrestlers and wrestling personalities called it an insult to their sport, given that while it is scripted, the toll it can take on their bodies is real
. Criticism came from both those who would naturally dislike Ryan (like Jim Ross and Kane) and many who otherwise agreed with the point he was trying to make (like Gail Kim and Dolph Ziggler).
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 12th 2020 at 12:20:09 PM
Rawr.
Goku Black
I uh dunno what the problem is with that one. It's just that he said it's like professional wrestling and actual professional wrestlers said it wasn't...
Not sure what's Rocej about it
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Goku Black
Okay....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Man, most things you post are so non-sequitor and pointless that I question why you post them.
And I agree with Mir about Sky's example, seems okay to me.
Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 12th 2020 at 12:09:56 PM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
The Draftsman of Doom
Ok. I’ll put it back on Insult to Rocks; I feel like I was being too cautious.
Honestly, however much of a schmuck I think Trump is, he could always be worse, and there will always be someone out there who is worse than him.
In any case, I’ll keep my eyes out for actual inflammatory language.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 12th 2020 at 12:29:17 PM
Rawr.
Blapper of Water
It might be about time to add some tropes to Donald Trump. After all, if we can have Trumplica then it seems like we could have a few more tropes on the Useful Notes/ page, no?
I haven't gone through everything, but I have found a few that concern the 2016 presidential election and at least one for before the election.
- Insult to Rocks: During Trump's 2020 State of the Union address, Congressman Tim Ryan walked out of the speech and compared it to professional wrestling. Many real-life wrestlers and wrestling personalities called it an insult to their sport, given that while it is scripted, the toll it can take on their bodies is real. Criticism came from both those who would naturally dislike Ryan (like Jim Ross and Kane) and many who otherwise agreed with the point he was trying to make (like Gail Kim and Dolph Ziggler).
- Adam Westing: Prior to getting into politics, Trump seemed to revel in parodies of himself, even appearing in a series of Oreo commercials with Darrell Hammond (known for having done an impression of Trump on Saturday Night Live). Of course, if you claim you're worth billions of dollars, you can afford some self depreciation.
- Anti-Advice: According to commentators with views as disparate as Russel Reno and Michael Moore, many Americans have so little confidence in political and media elites that many Americas were convinced that Trump was an excellent candidate because those same elites came out vehemently against Trump.
- Appropriated Appellation: During the 2016 presidential election, both the Trump and Hillary campaigns appropriated references to their supporters or to themselves, such as Trump's campaign selling merchandise using the word "Deplorable" and Hillary's campaign selling merchandise using the phrases "Nasty Woman" and "Bad Hombres."
- Assumed Win: From the perspective of Trump's campaign, this is inverted. The 2016 presidential election was an assumed loss for Trump, and it is one of the biggest pundit failures in history, to the point one could call it "Dewey v. Truman 2: Electric Boogaloo." Prior to the election, Clinton led in nearly all polls, and forecasters universally predicted that she would win an unbreakable 270-plus vote "firewall." The most conservative forecaster gave her a 71% chance of winning, while the most liberal (Huffpost Pollster) infamously gave her a 98% chance of winning. Newsweek even printed and shipped to stores a commemorative issue celebrating Clinton's victory as the first woman president. On election night, Trump held a modest event in the New York Hilton ballroom, expecting to only deliver a short concession speech. But he unexpectedly won Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin by narrow margins, all states that had not voted Republican in a presidential election since the 1980s.
His win is attributed to the high turnout from non-college educated white voters and a decline in reliable Democratic demographics. While the polling industry was widely criticized for its perceived overconfidence in Clinton winning, many people did not understand the concept of correlated error.note The one thing most polls did accurately predict was that Clinton would receive substantially more votes than Trump nationwide, with her winning the popular vote by 2.9 million and a margin of 48%-46%. - The Nicknamer: During the 2016 presidential election in the U.S., he became known for this, and he continued to dole out nicknames during his presidency. Generally, he would only nickname people or organizations that annoyed or upset him. The three most notable examples include "Rocket Man" Kim Jong-Un, "Crooked" Hillary, and "Fake News" CNN.
Trivia?:
- Fountain of Expies: See Trumplica for a list of examples.
- Adipose Rex: While he isn't skinny or "svelte" anymore, he is not obese, especially compared to the other two presidents on the list (Taft and Cleveland). According to this website at least, McKinley, Taylor, and Roosevelt were all just as fat as Trump. To put it nicely, the fact these presidents were ignored implies bias and shows an agenda.
- And a Diet Coke: This is not an example of the trope...
- Bait-and-Switch Comparison: The first one is a ZCE and even then I fail to see how it doesn't break ROCEJ. Really the three entries seem pretty focused on the North Korea nuclear scare, like episodic troping but IRL.
Edited by WaterBlap on Feb 13th 2020 at 12:12:50 PM
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
- The wide variety of voice actor changes in this game have been met with mixed reactions from fans. On one hand, there are those complaining that the new actors either sound too distant from the previous ones, just don't give good performances at all, or both. The most rebuked seem to be Knuckles (who sounds like someone doing a bad Travis Willingham impression), and Silver (who doesn't sound like his old self at all), though Blaze, Omega and Zavok's changes have been more widely accepted in comparison (some have noted that Erica Lindbeck's Blaze voice was so close to Laura Bailey's, they wouldn't have known the role was recast without looking it up, and that Omega was recast for very good reasons). On the other hand, there are those who feel that all these replacements are inoffensive and the actors did passable performances with the material they were given.
The part I bolded annoys me, since that sounds very one-sided without some context, has a ROCEJ pothole in place of it, and dosen’t mention the performances for Omega is between the two actors.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 20th 2020 at 2:52:08 PM
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I'm Sad Frogerson.
Omega's prior voice actor was Vic Mignogna, who has become a very controversial figure in the voice acting community after several allegations of sexual harrasement were made public.
Now, if you don't know who voiced Omega beforehand, that part of the entry seems conspicuous by tip-toeing around the issue. Maybe replace the pothole with Role-Ending Misdemeanor, since that probably gets the message across a lot better.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Feb 20th 2020 at 5:20:48 AM
Ah, I’ve defiantly heard of Vicgate before. It was mostly to do with him and Funimation. Had no idea he voiced Omega before this game.
I wouldn’t say that all fans felt the same way about Vic being replaced though. I’ve been around communities both Anti and Pro Vic. Although I don’t know how I would reflect that in the entry.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Feb 20th 2020 at 8:32:12 AM
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Blapper of Water
Should I take my proposal to the locked pages thread? Or would anyone like to say anything for/against my above post?
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
The Runaways has this in the description:
In 2015, Jackie Fox came forwards saying that she had been drugged
and raped by Kim Fowley at a party while Joan and Cherie looked on laughing and doing nothing. After she and Jett received a severe internet backlash, Cherie wrote a reply on her Facebook page denying the claims and saying that "All I can say is if Joan, Sandy and I saw an unconscious girl being brutally raped in front of us, we would have hit him over the head with a chair." (Interestingly, Currie had said previously that she witnessed the event, spoke up and then stormed out of the room.) Jett also denied that the event had occurred, writing a post that said "Anyone who truly knows me understands that if I was aware of a friend or bandmate being violated, I would not stand by while it happened [...] For a group of young teenagers thrust into '70s rock stardom there were relationships that were bizarre, but I was not aware of this incident. Obviously Jackie's story is extremely upsetting and although we haven't spoken in decades, I wish her peace and healing."
Lita Ford also commented on the allegations, saying "[I]f anybody knew anything, it would have been [manager Scott Anderson], Cherie and Joan, and Scott now is passed away, along with Kim Fowley. But I do know that Jackie's not a liar, and if she says that somebody was watching her, and if she says that this happened, then I believe her; I do. She's a little extreme sometimes, but still… it's not right. I really don't know what to say about it."
Is it okay for this to be on their page? My understanding is that someone being guilty/a victim of rape or other such crimes should only be brought up if it had an impact on the creator's career, such as getting them fired or making them cancel a work they were making.
Similarly, the examples of The Svengali and The Woobie are based purely on the members' personal lives and not their musical career.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Yeah, that's not information we need.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Death Note Special Chapter, a one-shot manga, has Trump as a major character. Naturally, about half the damn pages talk about him, and while none of them scream ROCEJ violation, I think we should be keeping tabs on the page. Here are some examples:
- Dirty Coward: After informing Trump that he will die for accepting the sale of the Death Note, Ryuk gives him two options: die, but keep the Death Note in US custody, or live, but return it to Ryuk. Trump not only decides to give it back, but decides to bluff everyone else into believing he still has it.
Ryuk: Got it. So you value your life over your country. [...] Very shrewd, Mr. President.
Calling Trump a Dirty Coward would usually be a violation, but I am fairly certain this is in reference to his in-universe portrayal, so maybe it can stay.
- Our Presidents Are Different: Unlike the fictional Presidents that appeared in Death Note proper, this chapter employs the President Unmodified variety. Chinese President Xi Jinping, Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, and United States President Donald Trump all appear as themselves in accordance with the world stage of 2019. Depending on how you see them, all—but particularly Trump—could be seen as Scheming, Corrupt, and/or Strawman.
The “particularly Trump” part strikes me as a possible violation.
From the Fridge.Death Note Special Chapter page:
- Even though Minoru's plan may have successfully kept the Death Note out of dangerous hands, it might have caused more damage than if he had just kept it to himself. Even with Donald Trump refusing to take the death note, the fact that the public at least believes it's owned by the US government is enough for paranoia and conspiracy theories to inevitably set in as soon as the death of a prominent person in government makes the news, especially with the reality subtext of Trump being the President and how little the public trusts him.
What do you think?
Now for the YMMV.Death Note Special Chapter page:
- Alternative Character Interpretation:
- Donald Trump of all characters in the one-shot. Is them lying about having the Death Note to the whole world and not take it in order to not die a usual Take That! towards Trump like the majority of the world does...or is it a rather genius ploy by Trump to make the nations of the world fearful that America has the Death Note despite the fact he said nobody would ever use it? Depending on your view on Trump, it can go either way.
There are a few more mentions of him on the page, and you can check them if you like, but they all seem pretty neutral to me.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The Draftsman of Doom
Yeah, I feel like the stuff specific to his fictional portrayal can generally stay, but regardless of my own opinions towards the current president (I'm Canadian, BTW), I feel like it is weird that a comparatively minor character is getting as much attention as N suggests. Some of that stuff can be written more neurtally.
As long as we add enough stuff about other characters, we should be fine.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 2nd 2020 at 2:45:47 PM
Rawr.
A Star Wars Nerd
Found this on the YMMV page for Bones as a "Funny Aneurysm" Moment
I'm pretty sure we're not allowed to use the Trump election for this trope and while it makes an appearence of being neutral, the trope itself is a negative one.
Perhaps it might go better as some kind of trivia entry about accidentally correct predictions?
Blapper of Water
FAM can be cut on sight, as per the stickied comment.
Look at all that shiny stuff ain't they pretty
This is a title.
From The Apprentice, Alternative Character Interpretation examples.
- Ivanka Trump, a feminist who cares about women's issues or an antifeminist trying to pander to what she thinks is the base?
- Omarosa, a Worthy Opponent turned close friend of Donald Trump, or just an annoying bitch?
Doesn't seem copacetic. At the least, they need some sort of context relevant to the show.
Edited by Eagal on Mar 10th 2020 at 2:51:21 AM
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders!
The Draftsman of Doom
Yeah, that seems kinda treyf.
Rawr.
How are these entries from Confirmation Bias? There’s real life examples in the Other folder btw.
- The Republican National Committee, in the wake of the 2012 presidential election, admitted this as one of their problems. Many conservatives spoke only to people on their side or paid attention to news sources slanted in their favor (such as the Fox News Channel), which was likewise basing their stories only on what their own side was saying. As a result, they were convinced that Mitt Romney would be elected in a landslide, and basically let his campaign coast, confident he would win handily. Once that bubble of comfort was burst, however, the results were less than pretty. Karl Rove in particular had an on-camera meltdown when Fox News called Ohionote for Barack Obama.
- The exact same thing occurred in 2016 to the Democrats (and to an extent, the mainstream Republican party). Donald Trump was initially treated as a joke by all media and establishment, who didn't realize how angry much of the populace were at the Washington insiders. It was not until Trump won multiple state primaries that people realized how much of the country had been excluded from the bubble and how upset they were. The same thing happened in the final election, with the majority of the media entering certain of a Clinton victory. The conviction was so strong that conspiracy theories immediately cropped up around Trump's victory.
Originally, Horrible.Other had folders with only one example, so they were all merged into one "Miscellaneous" folder which is why that folder exists. Bringing back the one-example folders and requiring discussion to add new folders would be fine with me.
The page doesn't have any problematic examples as far as I can see, so I think it can be kept. I'm keeping a pretty close eye on every edit made to that page, so if anything bad is added, I'll deal with it fast enough. There hasn't been any issue with people adding problematic entries.