Trump and ROCEJ

I would think that because Religion vs Atheism is hotly debated, keeping it would be questionable.

Ok, not touching it.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 11th 2020 at 6:58:53 AM

It's a hotbed, but it's not making any statements on the subject, it's just a quote.

So the trope Trumplica just launched. Most of the examples seem fine since they're about intentional references to the person, but this one feels off to me:

• South Park came up with two within the same season:
  • The President of Canada is only on screen for all of two minutes, during which he's shown to be an irresponsible bigot with no sense of class whose policies wrecked Canada, before getting raped to death by Mr. Garrison.

Due to lack of context, it seems like this example is just listing the character's flaws and saying Donald Trump also has them.

Having seen that episode, yes, the President of Canada is an obvious stand-in for Trump. He has the same hair-do, puts up a wall across the Canadian border to keep away immigrants from the States, and described as an outsider in politics who just spoke his mind without caring about what anyone else thought.

It's kind of hard to describe him in neutral terms since the show itself takes a pretty big anti-Trump stance.

So is this just for political stuff only or can we just name any potential ROCEJ violations here?

There isn't any other active ROCEJ thread, so you might as well take it here.

• After abuse and other allegations appeared on Tumblr, Beaubien took down fireball20xl.com, many of his online accounts, and all other domains that he owns. He has addressed the accusations as such: "I also want to address the allegations that have been made about me. I have never sexually touched a minor and I categorically deny any such allegation". Overwhelming evidence eventully surfaced that Psyguy's response was a lie, and for the most part Psyguy has been erased from the internet, although he still operates on some media platforms and does Let's Plays under the name "Bit Polar". The numerous talented artists that were originally employed under FB20XL have all since moved on to bigger and better things.

I saw this on the Fireball 20 XL page. Im surprised something hasn’t been done about it since that ATT query.

Also, someone might want to check RuinedFOREVER.Video Games Specific, last time I went there I saw some attacks on fans that made me feel uneasy. To name one, the Mass Effect entry had something like: “fans said ruined forever when there was a gay option in the game”.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 16th 2020 at 5:09:04 AM

For Fireball 20XL, I think that this part should be cut, at the very least:

"He has addressed the accusations as such: "I also want to address the allegations that have been made about me. I have never sexually touched a minor and I categorically deny any such allegation". Overwhelming evidence eventully surfaced that Psyguy's response was a lie"

Informing people that allegations against someone are definitely true (or false) is beyond TV Tropes' purpose, especially when no link to the actual evidence is provided.

Ruined FOREVER is pretty bad even for Darth Wiki. I wouldn't be surprised if it was cut at some point in the near future.

Anyway, would it be alright to place a Too Soon entry for Trivia.Sonic F, where they redubbed 2 episodes because they didn’t want to be associated with the guest stars in them? (One of them being Psyguy)

There’s also some YMMV items here that I’m unsure about:

• "Funny Aneurysm" Moment: Back in the day, there were a lot of people who portrayed Psyguy as a sort of Lovable Sex Maniac in fanart and the like as a joke. Now that who he really is is common knowledge, this art feels like a middle finger towards the people he's hurt, because while he's a sex maniac all right he's anything but lovable.
• Overshadowed by Controversy: As mentioned a couple of times here on TV Tropes, many members of the internet did not see Psyguy in a positive light ever since stories about his abused exes, friends and associates began to crop up all over the web, leading to a Creator Breakdown on his part. Evidently, the Creator Breakdown was (another) fabricated "apology"

And Trivia too:

• Creator Breakdown: After numerous allegations were made against Bryon, he went on something of a downward spiral that culminated in the site being taken down. As it turns out, this Creator Breakdown was just anotherfabrication to try and save face and garner sympathy.
• Role-Ending Misdemeanor: After allegations of abuse, cheating, pedophilia, and sexual harassment against him got out, Bryon was forced to take down his site and most of his online accounts. He has restarted his Internet life as Bit Polar, but will never reach the reputation he has earned before.

"Funny Aneurysm" Moment can be rewritten to not bash him, Overshadowed by Controversy can be rewritten to focus more on how audiences view the work, Creator Breakdown can be torched, and IDK about Role-Ending Misdemeanor, did he lose a role or anything? I know career ending and losing a role aren't the same thing.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 16th 2020 at 7:23:45 AM

Another thing on the ROCEJ laundry list:

From Dumbledore's Army and the Year of Darkness:

PLEASE NOTE: Thanfiction (also known as Victoria Bitter and Andy Blake) has a backstory that fans should be aware of before participating in any of the DAYDverse cons or fundraisers. The Tentmoot debacle in the Lord of the Rings fandom got him convicted of charity fraud, and he has a reputation for manipulation and deceit. Fans of the DAYDverse should be cautious about opening communication with him.

This isn’t about the fanfic. It’s about the person behind it.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 16th 2020 at 2:24:08 PM

At one point, similar warnings were added and removed from ProJared. Definitely cut.

I was told to be brought here from this ATT query about my concerns about the recent edits for The New '10s and possibly The New '20s.

There was already a cleanup thread for The New '10s, but after the first cleanup, and the yet lingering issues such as the "History Repeats" entry, and the subsequent ROCEJ violating edits, specifically the "Dumb Is Good" entry, the thread's activity went sparse. I was suggested on this thread regarding this issue.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Jan 18th 2020 at 12:26:44 AM

I think the tropes section of decades pages should only be for tropes that become more common in media produced in that decade. IIRC, pages that describe real life as if it was a TV show are not allowed, given that tropes lists have been removed from Useful Notes pages.

• PewDiePie, a name that froths more bile among YouTube viewers than any other. His manchildish image, his focus on visceral reactions over humorous dialogue, his constant barrage of over-the-top screams, extreme excess focus on quantity-over-quality when it comes to content, and all manner of his personality come together into something that puts off almost everyone outside of his tremendously large fanbase to incorrigible degrees. By 2019 he'd built a reputation as a racist and anti-semite on top of it.

The bolded part was recently added to Periphery Hatedom. Is it kosher?

Honestly that page has a habit of being pretty flame-baity, going by the edit history. So is this yet another example of that?

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 19th 2020 at 11:25:50 AM

The entire thing is super bashy anyway. It's so biased and one-sided.

There's actually a lot of stuff on the Periphery Hatedom page that needs cleaning up. Here are some of the more egregious examples:

• Golf. From those who aren't fans, it's regarded as monotonous, luck-based, aristocratic, unathletic (since some people just drive carts to wherever the ball is instead of walking), and associated with square old rich people in clown pants. Even if you don't use a cart, it's widely not considered to be particularly "athletic". Dave Barry once discussed it by breaking down the calories burned into various categories like "sauntering," "squinting," and "saying things like 'You certainly did double bogey that mashie niblick, Ted! Ha ha!'" For ironic points, in order to combat the idea that golf isn't athletic, there are rules regarding the use of carts on the pro-circuit, mainly that unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt (seriously, you jump though a ridiculous amount of hoops) you can't walk the distance involved, you walk the course. This leads to many people, who happen to catch a few minutes of golf on TV, to question why the players don't just ride in the carts to help speed the slow game up. Its image as the pastime of the classist, privileged elite (despite the highly contrarian face of the sport, Tiger Woods) certainly does not help matters. Its reputation was made even worse after 2016 due to it becoming a part of the main political issue in the United States.

• The sequel trilogy. While The Force Awakens was widely loved with general audiences and The Last Jedi was a polarizing Contested Sequel from both ends, both movies (and especially the second) are absolutely despised by the anti-feminist demographic for giving female characters more prominent roles that defy classical conventions of female leads. Three of those characters (Rey, Rose and Holdo) were almost definitely not meant to appeal to them, but are some of their prime targets of hatred nonetheless. The backlash reached the point that an anonymous fan made a very shoddy 46-minute Fan Edit of The Last Jedi that attempted to reduce or remove the roles of women, and quickly became Snark Bait for everyone else, including the male director and actors — thus itself becoming an example of this trope. Of course, other people dislike the film for more legitimate reasons, citing nonsensical twists that made the narrative overly confusing, Flat Characters and Flanderization, the pointless Canto Bight subplot, etc.

• All Black music has been prone to this. Jazz, R&B, and soul also had large Periphery Hatedoms in their time, but their hatedoms at least admitted that the main reason behind their loathing was the race of the musicians. Rap's detractors live in an era where that's not safe to say in public.

Then someone added this commented out bit next to the last entry:

• Though in the era of Donald Trump...

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 19th 2020 at 11:35:27 AM

Periphery Hatedom is by its nature a bit bashy, but you're right; sometimes it goes a little too far. I'd cut the Star Wars (too flame-baity to keep and arguably not valid anyway) and "black music" (not only is it a general example, it's basically just a way to say everyone who doesn't like it is racist) ones, but the golf one can stay if we cut out the politics, i.e. the last sentence.

(It's not even factually correct. The "Trump golfs a lot" jokes are basically the same as the "Obama golfs a lot" jokes, just from the other side.)

^ Cut that Pewdiepie edit. And, thing coming from me who generalizes things, those mentioned entries are seriously generalized. I mean, "All black music"? Really?

Ixnay osethay.

The Dumb Is Good entry for The New '10s is a Wall of Text, alongside troping about Real Life rather than works revolving it. I even stopped reading before ending the first sentence for being too long and bashy. Here is the paragraph:

• Dumb Is Good: While previous decades had seen noteworthy scholars warning of an anti-intellectual backlash, it reached a fever pitch around the start of Donald Trump's Presidential campaign. Trump shamelessly demonized intellectuals, appealing to a segment of the rural population who saw those with better education as condescending elitists. This coincided with Moral Guardians such as Rick Santorum warning Evangelical parents that colleges "indoctrinated" their children with secular views, a job market where a degree no longer guaranteed a good job, ^note though NOT having one generally limited people to physically demanding jobs that were more likely to necessitate an early retirement and student loan servicers becoming increasingly predatory in their business practices. All the sudden the premise of Idiocracy seemed chillingly realistic: Many people in rural communities wore their lack of education like a badge of honor, while others who wanted to seek higher education were leery of accumulating extortionate amounts of debt. The fact that Trump refused to do anything about the student debt problem and, in fact, appointed one of those predatory loan servicers as his Secretary Of Education painted a picture of a Darwinistic oligarchy seeking to restrict higher education to the very rich in order to keep the masses gullible enough to support them without question. This anti-intellectual backlash eventually got bad enough that Neil deGrasse Tyson and conservative columnist George F. Will, among others, expressed their concerns and warned about the potential consequences.

Uh. Hello?

Cut.

The dumb is good entry.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Jan 21st 2020 at 12:42:26 PM

The Pewdiepie entry or the Dumb Is Good entry?

I went and edited that page to delete/comment out the offending examples.

Anyways, I noticed that Lily Orchard's section on OvershadowedByControversy.Web Original has been getting attention lately. It's actually pretty lengthy right now. Anything that can be improved right now?

• YouTuber and blogger Lily Orchard (also known as Lily Peet) was already a divisive figure on social media, but her videos have created quite a bit of controversy, especially her Glass of Water series. The most noteworthy incidents involving Orchard include her mangled relationship with former friend Josh Scorcher^note even going as far as to implicitly call him "malignant humor cancer" that needed to die in a ditch, various statements that were regarded as sexist and ableist, her virulent anti-conservative political beliefs, and expressing support for a friend of hers who was discovered to have possessed child pornography. Orchard also has pretty harsh reactions to critiques of her and her work, including the fanfic Stockholm and her entire "(Show X) is Garbage and Here's Why" video series. Also, while Orchard is a fan of World of Warcraft, her apparent die hard love for Sylvanas Windrunner and subsequent demonization of the Alliance comes across in videos where she discusses the game. Similarly, her open hatred of Gallade and rude behavior towards most of its fans has made her a pariah in the Pokémon community. Finally, Orchard has a tendency to call anyone she doesn't like fascists and Nazis (including the aforementioned Josh Scorcher and Rebecca Sugar, who is Jewish), and there is a clear lack of research in many of her reviews. All of this made Orchard an extremely controversial figure online, and it's become impossible to even mention Orchard's name without bringing up her radical political views and arrogant behavior. The controversy surrounding Orchard eventually got to the point where her Twitter account was banned, and her TV Tropes page was permanently locked.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Jan 21st 2020 at 10:56:49 AM

Definitely trim it. She's no saint and I wasted two hours watching her rant about Steven Universe, but definitely trim it as neutral as possible.

Also, what about the Dumb Is Good entry on The New '10s? It's pretty lengthy and bashy, and I don't know any media in that decade revolving around that trope, except for how Quinton Reviews discussing Rick and Morty and it's deconstruction of Morty's naiveté.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on Jan 22nd 2020 at 1:04:56 AM

Per mod saying, I have removed the Dumb Is Good entry in The New '10s, alongside Lurid Tales of Doom and "Rashomon"-Style. I have commented out certain tropes to be rewritten around fiction per this thread.

Now, I will wait on what happens to History Repeats and Serious Business.

Honestly some of these entries on that page read more like Lists of Transgressions than Overshadowed by Controversy examples. Also, can an example even count if they were always controversial? Some people seem to forget the Overshadowed part in Overshadowed by Controversy.