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Danganronpa V3: Killing Harmony (spoilers)

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Chariot King of Anime Since: Jul, 2014
King of Anime
#701: Jan 10th 2018 at 5:41:51 AM

if we take Tsumugi at her word, they would have had to get memory-wiped twice, which doesn't make all that much sense.

I mean they were already memory wiped at least twice before the events of Chapter One as the Monocubs mention worry about the cast not having their first memories yet during the Prologue and then there's the memory wipe that happens between the end of the Prologue and Chapter One. Combine that with the mentions of scripts in the Prologue and taking Tsumugi at face value makes perfect sense.

Basically it'd be something like the audition tapes were real and the scene were everyone was excited did happen > first memory wipe > the Prologue were it's mentioned that nobody has gotten their first memory yet and references to the script by the Monocubs > second memory wipe > Chapter One and the rest of the game.

edited 10th Jan '18 5:42:42 AM by Chariot

SilentPartner Since: Oct, 2017
#702: Jan 10th 2018 at 12:10:47 PM

I mean, that’s certainly possible, but I think I still prefer the idea that she’s lying and being an Unreliable Narrator about at least that one aspect of the twist. Mostly since it’d be a neat variation on the whole “Villain pushes the cast over the edge with the awful truth” thing that happened in the finale of the other two games.

edited 10th Jan '18 12:11:14 PM by SilentPartner

AlaAlba Since: Jun, 2011
#703: Jan 10th 2018 at 7:23:00 PM

If so, then why they're still in their normies' clothes after the first mind wipe? If taking Tsumugi's words on the face value, then the chronology becomes;

Normies get in the show, change to their Ultimate clothes > first mindwipe, change to their normie clothes again > get their clothes the second time > second mindwipe > Ultimates.

What a waste of time, as not only they were mindwipe twice, they were also changed their costumes twice. Not to mention, in the prologue, while Kaede doesn't know about her kidnapping's reason, she definitely recognizes Monokubs. That means, first mindwiping that presumably makes them fit into the Gofer Project's backstory doesn't makes sense, because there's no Monokuma, much less Monokubs, in that part of fiction.

TruthHurts22 You can't handle the me Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
You can't handle the me
#704: Jan 10th 2018 at 7:25:49 PM

Except that it's clearly stated by the Monokubs in the prologue that they messed up the order of things and woke everyone up before they gave them their personalities/outfits. It's just human (er, robot?) error.

edited 10th Jan '18 7:27:16 PM by TruthHurts22

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#705: Jan 10th 2018 at 7:31:45 PM

Though even accounting for that, it still doesn't make sense why everyone's suddenly not wearing their Ultimate clothes in the prologue, if the "Yay, we got in! :D" bit takes place before it. In fact, it makes less sense.

edited 10th Jan '18 7:32:24 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
AlaAlba Since: Jun, 2011
#706: Jan 10th 2018 at 7:49:46 PM

[up][up]But in the Chapter 6, when Tsumugi claims that they're willing participants, there's a flashback as a visual presentation of Tsumugi's exposition that shows the students had already changed into their clothes even as normies who are happy to be participants. That means the Kubs were already doing the correct procedures, and yet somehow they're not later? That also means one of these recollection just doesn't make sense, and I'm more inclined to believe the part of the game where we actually see things through the main characters' eyes instead of an exposition of someone who we knew lied to make things convenient for her.

edited 10th Jan '18 7:53:56 PM by AlaAlba

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#707: Jan 10th 2018 at 7:52:15 PM

[up] ...Who is that addressed to? Because I agree with you there.

Oh God! Natural light!
Chariot King of Anime Since: Jul, 2014
King of Anime
#708: Jan 10th 2018 at 8:07:13 PM

Though even accounting for that, it still doesn't make sense why everyone's suddenly not wearing their Ultimate clothes in the prologue, if the "Yay, we got in! :D" bit takes place before it. In fact, it makes less sense.

How does it make less sense? Audition + Acceptance with them in their ingame outfits > first mindwipe > Prologue where it's established that the Monocubs fucked up and went off script > second mindwipe > the rest of the game. The fact that the Monocubs fucked up explains why they would change clothes so many times.

edited 10th Jan '18 8:07:46 PM by Chariot

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#709: Jan 10th 2018 at 8:21:34 PM

Well, first of all, they auditioned in their mundane outfits. And while it's possible that the Monokubs fucked up, going through the prologue again, while they do mention that their outfits are boring, their dialogue suggests that they just forgot to handle the memories. And somewhat swapping the Ultimate clothes for the mundane ones seems...a little too far-fetched and convoluted, especially when it'd be simpler for them to just have forgotten do to the whole set-up, rather than screw up the first part and then forget to rewrite their memories.

Regardless, if Kodaka did indeed instruct people to replay the prologue, then it sounds like he doesn't want us to take things at face value, and again, that's not the only inconsistency people have noticed.

edited 10th Jan '18 8:22:48 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#710: Jan 10th 2018 at 11:19:38 PM

Since we mentioned the prologue here, in the prologue Monophanie says they aren't some swift-footed singer who landed another future ex-boyfriend. What did she originally say?

Chariot King of Anime Since: Jul, 2014
King of Anime
#711: Jan 11th 2018 at 4:29:49 AM

their dialogue suggests that they just forgot to handle the memories.
No it doesn't. They outright mention that the Exisals aren't meant to show up until later but they clearly first showed up alongside them so clearly they did more than forget to handle the memories. If they messed up with giving the cast their first memories as well as introduced the Exisals early, having the cast switch outfits multiple times is the smallest screw up they could have done.

Regardless, if Kodaka did indeed instruct people to replay the prologue, then it sounds like he doesn't want us to take things at face value
Or, ya know, he wants people to find the hints towards the endgame plot twist in the Prologue.

that's not the only inconsistency people have noticed
The only inconsistencies people bring up are that we never see them be accepted, which is explained by the fact that they already had their memories wiped once prior to the Prologue given the mentions of them not having their first memories yet, Shuichi's name being different but him introducing himself as Shuichi/remembering his name as such but that's explained by Kaede not even knowing her own name at first before quickly introducing herself as Kaede, the Cospox which Tsumugi could easily have faked, and the floor supposedly being different but that completely ignores that we don't know that the auditioned on set/in the school and that if you check the event gallery the floor isn't different at all.

Every inconsistency that people bring up has an actual, logical, explanation if you know where to look/think about it hard enough.

Comun Since: Jun, 2012
#712: Jan 11th 2018 at 5:40:40 AM

Since we mentioned the prologue here, in the prologue Monophanie says they aren't some swift-footed singer who landed another future ex-boyfriend. What did she originally say?

そうよ!質問が多いわ!熱愛報道されたスターじゃないのよっ! "Agreed! You are asking us too many questions! We're some stars having their passionate love covered by the press-!"

edited 11th Jan '18 3:18:55 PM by Comun

Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
#713: Jan 11th 2018 at 10:31:45 PM

Ok then, that was almost as bad as the Kirumi motive video.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#714: Jan 12th 2018 at 6:55:29 PM

Look, the only thing that makes any sense at all is that it's all a video game.

Okay, that sounds like a copout, but hear me out:

If we accept the premise that it's all a reality show, we have to accept that this is a universe where Exisal technology is PHYSICALLY possible. But the Exisals existed in the Danganronpa continuity once before. Where? In the computerized world of DG 2.

That's a little sketchy on its own, but think about it like this: if the cast of DGV 3 were real human beings but they had their memories manipulated, nthat means that the cast lives in a world where it's possible to create a person with the click of a button (mentally if not physically, but honestly, the Necronomicon from Ch 3 suggests it may be possible to instantly clone people too). Consider just how much of an impact that would have on a society. One could argue that maybe the Flashback Lights are super expensive to produce and have limited uses or something and thus the technology is as unavailable as magic, but given that there's, what, 30 uses of the light before the end of chapter 1 that seems a bit fishy itself.

So basically, we have to say either A.) "the reason this thing seems unreal is because it's not just figuratively unreal, but literally unreal" or " B.) this is just how technology works in this continuity. And since we've already established virtual reality is possible, it's actually less of a stretch to say everything was faked-including the physical bodies-rather than to just say everything BUT their physical bodies was faked.

The one last piece of evidence is that the "viewers" all have realistic looking faces, instead of anime style faces. The characters are fictional, but if their bodies were real, then their bodies should look the same as that of the viewers. But they're totally different art styles. Now, obviously, that's a stylistic choice, and I don't think there's necessarily an objective truth to the question of "are their bodies fake or real" but I do think that you can't really create a scenario where everything Tsumugi said makes for a sensible universe. And when you're faced with contradictions, the simplest answer is that someone is lying. And once we cease to take Tsumugi at her word, there's really not much left.

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#715: Jan 12th 2018 at 6:57:57 PM

Also Chariot, the biggest inconsistency from the prologue is the K1-BO has a robot body after clothing change but not before. So if we're lead to believe the prologue is just a flashlight effect, then the question is how they pulled the ol switcheroo on Kibo

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#716: Jan 12th 2018 at 7:01:39 PM

My personal explanation is that it's reality TV, but they film it in VR, if that makes sense.

Whether they actually kill people, or if Tsumugi was just lying to cause suitable despair is a matter of opinion, and one I can't really decide on myself - it's inhumane either way, obviously.

Of course, one could argue that this world just has really crazy technology at its disposal - killer mecha, memory-rewriting machines, you get the idea. Then again, super-advanced VR that can also rewrite memories is pretty advanced in its own right. Either way, the technology is considerably above our own - I'd set this at least 20 years in the future, personally.

Of course, I did have this idea that goes even more into the realm of Mind Screw, wherein the people the contestants once were no longer exist - they are purely fictional beings, with no trace of them left in the real world.

edited 12th Jan '18 7:06:01 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#717: Jan 12th 2018 at 8:48:33 PM

You know what WOULDN'T require any advanced technology?

If it was all a script, and none of the characters is even intelligent, and they're just presenting a pre-written program as if it's reality TV when in actuality it's just rendered VR.

Think General Tarkin from Rogue One, but more competent, and on a bigger scale. Like, the entire notion that there's a killing game is itself just one big lie.

edited 12th Jan '18 8:48:55 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#718: Jan 12th 2018 at 8:52:21 PM

Followup on this theory, just to make it sad:

The people in the Danganronpa games are real-or were real. They choose high schoolers to serve as the models to be rendered who died during their high school careers. They can't use real live people because obviously then when the person is seen on the street people would be all like "WTF I thought you were dead and also fictional." But they do need the characters to look plausibly real to keep the illusion that the characters from the killing game are beings of flesh and blood as opposed to pure fiction. So they have the parents of the deceased sell the rights to their children in order to have an original cast that they can kill at their whim.

Like some weirdo super dark version of Angel Beats.

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#719: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:13:54 PM

Interesting idea, though I confess I prefer the cast to be real, living people, as I think that offers more possibilities for stories.

Also [up][up] is...pretty much what the game actually is, except it's a game, not TV. I'm...not sure what that has to offer, frankly. Less craziness, I suppose, but Danganronpa is no stranger to craziness.

edited 12th Jan '18 9:16:28 PM by KarkatTheDalek

Oh God! Natural light!
Smasher from The 1830's, but without the racists (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: The best thing that ever happened to a bum like me
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#721: Jan 12th 2018 at 9:55:56 PM

Shirogane is one of my favorite characters, but seeing her dead last in the popularity… means her character really stood out!

...The f*ck?

This song needs more love.
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#722: Jan 12th 2018 at 10:14:00 PM

No, I think I see the logic. That the least popular character is the most hated isn't necessarily the most accurate statement, but Tsumugi has plenty of things to hate about her, so I think that's a fair assumption to make here. Basically, he sees this as Tsumugi inspiring enough hatred that she ended up dead last.

I'll admit that she did make an impression on me, although that might have less to do with how well she was characterized, and more because I enjoy writing from her point of view (or at least, what I envision it to be. Personally, I think she's actually more like Nagito than Junko).

Oh God! Natural light!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#723: Jan 12th 2018 at 10:18:13 PM

I just find it humorous at the idea of Kodaka being very dissatisfied at Maki's placing.

Damn he really likes her. tongue

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#724: Jan 12th 2018 at 10:33:45 PM

Well, we all have our faves.

I'm more curious what he meant by this:

“How should I put this… I make a game, and then when I finish making it, I move on from that game, but I keep hoping this moment I’m writing to become eternal inside someone, specially when I’m doing an epilogue.”

An epilogue? Is he writing one for the game? Or am I misreading him?

Oh God! Natural light!
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#725: Jan 12th 2018 at 10:48:01 PM

[up][up][up]That can certainly be true a lot of the time but, and this is admittedly just from my experience, the reaction to Tsumugi has been less vitriol and more a resounding "meh" stemming from her lack of character and having to fill Junko's shoes.

Dead last in popularity usually means that a character failed to even evoke Love to Hate.

[up]Nah, I think he's just speaking in general.

edited 12th Jan '18 10:51:48 PM by LordVatek

This song needs more love.

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