Going ahead and openin this as there's a Image Pickin' thread whose fate rests on what happens here.
I expected this to be a retool that didn't work but instead its the No Mans Sky trope.
Promo material that doesn't show off 'actual gameplay' and other misleading practices to promote a work is trope worthy but this is far more negative than it should be about the works themselves.
The work could be the best ever but the commercials and other promo materials do not actually show it. An example would be the old Chrono Cross playstation commercial. The damn game was godly and widely considered the best RPG on the Playstation but not a single part of the actual game is shown in the commercial.
A rename and rework to be not so negative would work.
edited 2nd Jan '17 10:10:52 PM by Memers
Maybe Deceptive Marketing? Potentially the Missing Supertrope to Covers Always Lie and Never Trust a Trailer.
edited 2nd Jan '17 10:14:58 PM by Daefaroth
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.Seems that we have 2 tropes here: what Daefaroth was said (as a complaining magnet, which should be exampleless and just be turned into an index) and what Memers was said (deceptive marketing).
"Polishing the turd" or "making the thing look better than it actually is" to me doesn't sound like it's specific to advertising and might in fact be applied to in-universe examples.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.How is it used in wicks.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanHere is a chunk of the usage
- Adaptation Decay: Listed as a subtrope
- Adventurers!: Correct use; Used In-Universe
- Advertising by Association: Listed as a related trope
- Advertising Tropes: Index
- JustForFun.Aladdin IV Jafar May Need Glasses: Potholed. Joke page anyways pretending a Family Guy gag is an actual movie
- Alien: Isolation: Correct use; Used In-Universe describing a corporation in the work.
- PlayingWith.All Girls Want Bad Boys : In-Universe for Alice trying to talk up her boyfriend to her parents.
- Artistic License – Pharmacology: Sinkholed in a way that didn’t make a lot of sense.
- Asbestos-Free Cereal: Listed as a related trope
- AstroTurf: Used to describe IMDB ballot stuffing
- TruthInTelevision.A To C# : used to describe …But He Sounds Handsome, but again closer to AstroTurf
- IThoughtItMeant.A To C : Contrasting Artificial Brilliance, not that I have any idea how those would be confused
- Baby Geniuses: Again IMDB ballot stuffing
- Bad Movie Beatdown: Correct use; Pointing out a review on the DVD is a quote from an anonymous amazon review.
- Bad to the Last Drop: Unneeded sinkhole that doesn’t make a lot of sense
- UsefulNotes.Bipolar Disorder: Sinkhole
- Bitter Almonds: Pothole that would be better as Asbestos-Free Cereal
- Blatant Lies: Listed as a related trope
- Boris: Sinkhole that doesn’t really fit
- Cinematic Excrement: describing youtube ballot stuffing
- TropesThatWillNeverHappen.Complaining: I have no idea what is going on in that page
- Contemptible Cover: Listed as a related trope
- Damned: Used In-Universe
- PlayingWith.Damned By Faint Praise: Related tropes
edited 3rd Jan '17 4:48:30 AM by Daefaroth
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.And some more
- Derailing: related tropes
- Direct to Video: Correct use describing overhyping the video description
- Donkey Kong Country: Pothole, but sounds more like Self Depricating Humor
- Dungeon Keeper: Sounds valid, apparently the system prevents bad reviews of the game from showing up
- Elenco Provvisorio P-R: Presumably a literal translation of the trope name
- El Santos: misuse; describes a literal usage of the trope name
- Epic Rap Battles of History: misuse, calling someone a “shiny turd” is not this trope
- Glee S 4 E 22 All Or Nothing: discussed In-Universe
- Goshdang It To Heck: referencing the literal usage on the Mythbusters episode
- Greatest Hits Album: correct; describing how “best of” can be used to mask when a group doesn’t have enough hits for a “greatest hits” album
- PlayingWith.Hate Fic: Hard to say, not much context to explain the usage here
- Hurricane of Euphemisms: again Mythbusters literal episode
- TruthInTelevision.J To L: Use here does not make much sense
- Jumping the Shark: General example, related trope
edited 3rd Jan '17 5:24:46 AM by Daefaroth
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.I think it's worth having some sort of article about the ploys media companies use to bury bad reviews and manufacture raves. I don't think the generic examples are worth keeping, though.
I think the thing to do is make it an index for tropes that try to make a work seem better than it is and cut non-literal examples entirely.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.I agree that we should have a separate section/trope for deceptive marketing.
Oissu!So where is the spilt? Deceptive Marketing and Hype Marketing?
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.No, it's between "deceptive marketing" and "polish the turd".
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.Yes, but "Polish the Turd" by nature of the phrase invites complaining and needs to be renamed.
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.Nope. Polishing the Turd is an actual industry term for hiding a bad or sub-par product under a coat of polish that distracts from the flaws so I'd say a change is a no-go.
Throwing a huge special effects budget at a bad movie script to distract from the horrid story or putting pretty graphics on an otherwise broken game (ie: Sonic 2006) are examples of how it works. Using distortion and noise to compensate for poor playing in music and cover up mistakes is another common example.
edited 4th Jan '17 12:00:19 AM by shoboni
Just because it is an industry term doesn't mean it isn't complaining. It is literally comparing a work to poop. If the name stays it can be nothing more than a list of tropes commonly used to make works look better and have no examples at all. If it is going to be a trope with examples it needs to have a neutral name that won't be a complaint magnet.
Polish the turd would have to stay as a redirect due to the inbounds, but I think we can come up with a better name for it.
edited 4th Jan '17 12:43:32 AM by Daefaroth
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.If it's an industry term, it can stay as such. But if the examples are useless removing them may work. And tighten the definition.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI'm fully against example cutting if we can at all avoid it
AFAIK, we have a rule that we can't mess with the names of stuff that's already an established term outside the wiki. It falls under the same protection that keeps Tropes Of Legend like Xanatos Gambit that violate newer naming rules from being renamed.
edited 4th Jan '17 2:49:00 PM by shoboni
Limiting it to in-universe only could work.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.I honestly hate limited at all because I'm off the opinion we're way to liberal swinging around that chainsaw.
If worst comes to worst, just move it to the Dark Wiki and leave it be for complaining.
edited 4th Jan '17 4:02:26 PM by shoboni
Darth Wiki for complaining and then just pruning links off other work and trope pages works fine for me.
If there is such a rule I can't find it. The only thing I can find is a Grandfather Clause, but that is about a term being so embedded in this wiki that it would be too much work to clean it up. I don't think trope names are safe purely on the basis that it is used the same in the real world.
edited 4th Jan '17 8:20:11 PM by Daefaroth
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.I seem to recall us having a rule that prominent usage outside the wiki protects tropes from name changes.
Agreed though. I'd be cool with moving it to the Darth Wiki and leaving it for complaining about dressing up bad works in a deceptive (ie: pretty graphics on an otherwise shitty game) or attempts to cover up quality issues in a half-assed manner while removing wicks form work pages.
It is also an established term outside media, one that even the Mythbusters even tried to see if literal matched the figurative.
I am very much against continuing using the title as the trope is more specific than the usage of it.
Darth Wiki isn't a dump, though.
@ Daefaroth: Naming A Trope says that pre-established terms are a priority.
We don't need justice when we can forgive. We don't need tolerance when we can love.^No it doesn't. It says that pre-existing terms are good, but nothing in there says that pre-existing terms get priority or immunity. If anything gets priority it is 'clear'.
Darth Wiki isn't a dump, but it is a place that negativity is allowed. As it stands polish the turd is overly negative. It either needs to be made more neutral or placed where the negativity is acceptable.
^^Regardless of what decision is made here I think that it would be good to run a Deceptive Marketing trope (or trivia maybe?) through TLP.
This signature says something else when you aren't looking at it.
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
Polish the Turd is pretty close to 100% complaining and backed up with around 90% generic examples. Personally I would nuke it from orbit but I suspect that won't happen due to the number of inbounds. As an alternative, I would recommend wiping all the examples except for the "tropes used to polish turds" list and turn it into an index.
edited 2nd Jan '17 2:00:36 AM by Daefaroth
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