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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#176: Jul 10th 2017 at 5:40:35 AM

Yeah. I gotta say, I'm rather disappointed by the Adaptational Villainy of the Church in this.

I can only hope that, depending on how far they get with things, they eventually have them clean up their act or something, cause it would be really disappointing to make them secondary bad guys when they weren't that in the original games. Just seems like an excuse to do an Author Tract.

One Strip! One Strip!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#177: Jul 10th 2017 at 6:17:36 AM

I'm rolling with it for now given the setting and backstory (and the bishop specifically being pointed out as corrupt, not a model clergyman), but if it keeps going into Simon's era it is going to become really obnoxious really quickly.

DS9guy Since: Jan, 2001
#178: Jul 10th 2017 at 7:57:19 AM

Warren Ellis strikes me as a comic book writer who can write dark stuff similar to Garth Ennis and Mark Millar but is more successful at avoiding Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy than those two. Yes, this show is bleak and violent and full of assholes but at least I still care about the main characters.

Also, Yay! An American adult animated show that isn't a comedy! grin

edited 10th Jul '17 8:01:17 AM by DS9guy

PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#179: Jul 10th 2017 at 7:59:23 AM

[up][up]The archbishop looked good, if a tad senile.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#180: Jul 10th 2017 at 8:01:39 AM

[up]Hence why I hope if we do get stories about Simon and Richter the corrupt church stuff is long gone.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#181: Jul 10th 2017 at 8:11:35 AM

Warren Ellis a great writer who runs into darkness induced apathy from time to time, and like pretty much every single British comic book writer, he has a seething, burning, borderline irrational hatred for the Catholic Church.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Craving for fish
#182: Jul 10th 2017 at 8:41:53 AM

After watching the first episode, while I did like it, I did find Dracula be little bit off. More in the sense that his original grudge was against God and Lisa's death was the thing what triggered him to go after humans. Heck, his army was mainly composed of creatures and humans who have turned against God.

Sort of feels like some motives are missing here for now.

Only sometimes posts
Misiael Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
#183: Jul 10th 2017 at 10:19:58 AM

[up][up]

You know, in Europe there's kinda different perception of Catholic Church. With Vatican here and long, complicated history of Church and State relations in many countries, it was inevitable. There's strong and long-established backlash against Christian religions in some circles of artists.

edited 10th Jul '17 10:20:57 AM by Misiael

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#184: Jul 10th 2017 at 10:27:42 AM

[up]

Also England has a history of persecuting Catholics, and there is also the fact that Henry the 8th split off from the church in order to get divorced.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#185: Jul 10th 2017 at 12:57:54 PM

It's a bit Hollywood History considering the Catholic Church, while it could be pretty regressive at times, still wasn't as anti-science as it gained a reputation for after the Enlightenment. Gregor Mendel was an ordained monk and professor, and the issue with Galileo was more about politics and saving face than dogma.

The fact that Ellis is from the UK, which has a long history of active anti-Catholicism probably has a lot to do with it. Would explain why he made the priests all Catholic when Romania historically was and still is Eastern Orthodox, not Catholic. Granted the original Castlevania canon is pretty fuzzy about the distinction too. The Pope exists but I don't think they've gone into detail beyond this.

Misiael Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Dancing with myself
#186: Jul 10th 2017 at 1:55:12 PM

In second season I expect Simon Belmont from Captain N: The Game Master cameo. That would be epic.

edited 10th Jul '17 1:57:27 PM by Misiael

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#187: Jul 10th 2017 at 2:06:48 PM

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/09/first-time-warren-ellis-wrote-castlevania-animation-ten-years-ago/

Interesting lowdown on the developmental process behind the series. Apparently this series was first started ten years ago, and considering how much of it was kept in the final result it works as a roadmap for what to expect from the rest of the show.

Buzzinator Monkey See, DIC Do Since: Feb, 2014
Monkey See, DIC Do
#188: Jul 10th 2017 at 2:23:41 PM

[up]Indeed, it is.

I am curious about the talks that led to the film(s) being dug out of development hell and made into the series that was released on Friday.

"You can run, but you can't hide from the Buzzinator!"
firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#189: Jul 10th 2017 at 4:00:36 PM

@ Alley Oop

This is a case of writers spreading stereotypes about history than actually doing their research. As you said, they got a lot a things about the church wrong. For instance, the church would be behind the Belmont family fighting monsters because a lot of their saints have been depicted fighting monsters as well. Heck, I think the Church would have considered the Belmont family for sainthood for hunting down creatures that try to take over humanity.

Thelastwarrior Since: Jun, 2017
#190: Jul 10th 2017 at 5:19:18 PM

To quote linkara: If you say warren Ellis's name three times in front of a mirror he will appear and show how deeply awful humanity is.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#191: Jul 10th 2017 at 5:22:30 PM

When that happens, can I punch him in the gut?

I mean, it won't make him wrong, but I'll feel pretty good about it.

I don't actually have a problem with Warren Ellis, I just don't like people showing up in my bathroom out of nowhere.

One Strip! One Strip!
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#192: Jul 10th 2017 at 5:30:47 PM

All I know is that it's fine to show a local corrupt official to explain the initial Belmont exile.

If this is a constant thing this will become insufferable.

Vertigo_High Since: May, 2010
#193: Jul 10th 2017 at 8:56:00 PM

The church being wicked didn't bother me because...well that's kind of how things were. They were kind of jerks back then. Even in modern day you have zealots who take religion too far and have abhorrent views, just imagine said views as the norm and that's a rough idea of how things are for many places in Trev's time.

That said Warren Ellis is an atheist so I feel Author Appeal is a factor too.

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#194: Jul 10th 2017 at 9:15:25 PM

[up]

The thing is they get so much about the medieval period wrong including parts about the witch hunts and treating the church as if it was super anti-science. Yeah, there are religious nuts and sometimes the church had corrupt officials, but on the other hand a lot of misconceptions are spread about the past to the point people accept them as being factual. Also it's a case of unneeded Adaptational Villainy that was put there because the author has an agenda against the church.

edited 10th Jul '17 9:16:46 PM by firewriter

Ssj3Gojira Arashi Shigehito from The Event Horizon Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Arashi Shigehito
#195: Jul 10th 2017 at 9:17:05 PM

I mean, didn't Leon and Mathias/Vlad take part in the Crusades?

Let's see if you can get past my Beelzemon. Mephiles, WARP SHINKA!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#196: Jul 10th 2017 at 9:17:39 PM

Pazuzu's teardown of the Bishop was worth it though.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Zeromaeus Since: May, 2010
#197: Jul 10th 2017 at 9:31:26 PM

Its not even that the church as a whole were anti-science here. The bishop was trying to control people through their ignorance.

Ghilz Perpetually Confused from Yeeted at Relativistic Velocities Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Perpetually Confused
#198: Jul 10th 2017 at 9:34:10 PM

The thing is they get so much about the medieval period wrong including parts about the witch hunts and treating the church as if it was super anti-science. Yeah, there are religious nuts and sometimes the church had corrupt officials, but on the other hand a lot of misconceptions are spread about the past to the point people accept them as being factual. Also it's a case of unneeded Adaptational Villainy that was put there because the author has an agenda against the church.

You telling me the show about Dracula's Achronistic Teleporting Castle isn't historically accurate?

Next you'll tell me Wallachia wasn't decimated by Demons and Magic Roms Speakers don't exist either!

Honestly, I don't care how they made the church a bad guy for Trevor's turn to the heroic, I just kinda wish the Bishop was less 2 dimensional evil. Like, he's a character you've seen a million times before. But then again, that scene with the demon was so good, I can forgive that.

edited 10th Jul '17 9:44:21 PM by Ghilz

firewriter Since: Dec, 2016
#199: Jul 10th 2017 at 9:46:19 PM

@ Zeromaeus

It's another common stereotype about the Catholic Church during those times, that still annoyingly persists to this day.

Hashil Since: Aug, 2010
#200: Jul 10th 2017 at 9:58:57 PM

It's primarily one guy, though. Trevor gets a well meaning priest to make holy water, the archbishop - who besides ignoring Dracula's warnings is not depicted as being particularly corrupt or callous - is explicitly mentioned to have sent him away citing differences in faith, and, with regards to the Belmonts being excommunicated, it is canon that they were at least feared by the common people and sent away prior to Trevor bringing the family back to prominence and acclaim. Given the power the church had, I don't think it's such an author tract fueled stretch of logic to have that banishment be by excommunication.

edited 10th Jul '17 10:00:27 PM by Hashil


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