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How do the dominant cultural narratives in art and mass media affect our politics?

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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#11926: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:42:36 PM

I mean, the guy left behind a super dangerous magical monster in a school where children would attend for the express purpose of murdering children in the future.

Disgusted, but not surprised
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#11927: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:42:39 PM

I'm wondering about Fantasy Counterparts. I'm usually joking about a idea of Imperial Chinese Elves (saw a pic of a Chinese Emperor with elf earns and I thought it was badass) and while I genuinely would like see that, I'm increasingly aware that is something that should be done very carefully. I put them as the Resilient Ally and secondary characters (there many asian humans, trust me, racial diversity is my top goal), staying Out of Focus except when being The Cavalry (and when The Alliance is The Cavalry to then. Alliaces, even reclutant ones, are Alliances).

I am sure that I can pull a story with them as protagonists, but damn that I would need 1) Read a lot of Imperial Chinese history to get its nuances, 2) Get some chinese people to call me out when I'm doing something racist.

The Chinese reviewers would be more likely to call you out for not making them even more powerful than the other races. tongue

Edited by FluffyMcChicken on Oct 16th 2018 at 8:43:22 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#11928: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:45:12 PM

It's rather saddening just how much Chinese fiction these days is nothing but blatant power fantasies. Especially Chinese web novels. They are so blatant that even Japanese isekai webnovel writers would take one look at them and go "Too OP".

Disgusted, but not surprised
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#11929: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:46:46 PM

[up][up] Good luck that They are More powerful than other races tongue. Really, The Alliance got their Mecha-Mooks from them and they also help them to build their super weapons. Is a awkward alliance, but is so damn good for both

Yeah. This is a series where the Good Guys use Superweapons and Mecha-Mooks.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 16th 2018 at 10:47:28 AM

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11930: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:46:59 PM

I mean, the guy left behind a super dangerous magical monster in a school where children would attend for the express purpose of murdering children in the future.

Seriously. If anything should make people reconsider whether your worldview was valuable and worth teaching to children, it's the f*cking Basilisk. It's not even a secret who's fault it is; the Basilisk's master is literally called the Heir of Slytherin.

Everyone knows that Slytherin is a dumpster fire person with nothing to offer the world but hate and malice. They're just all weirdly on-board with the idea of passing along his hate and malice to future generations.

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KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#11931: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:52:17 PM

@Crimson: Yeah. I can see the why. Is why I'm only writing that. Thought I like the idea of a Chinese-like Magical culture being allies of The Alliance, maybe just make them Humans whose magic is so advanced.

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#11932: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:52:25 PM

I think that's one of the best elements of Harry Potter actually. At the start of Harry Potter, the Voldemort thing has been nicely shoved under the rug. There's a bunch of noble houses in control over the country, propping up the Ministry of Magic, and it's all a Voldemort-lite sort of situation.

The Muggleborn are oppressed and marginalized from the halls of power but not persecuted. The Malfoys are more or less in charge of the government with their puppets.

The Slytherins are the heart of the Magical World until Voldemort returns. It's the classicist, racist, and ambition-filled magical world that contrasts so nastily to America (which is even more racist in other ways).

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 16th 2018 at 8:54:32 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#11933: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:53:23 PM

Moreover, and this has kind of been mentioned already, Rowling did a real half-assed job of trying to get across the message of "no, slytherin's not REALLY an inherently evil house!!". The only remotely non-terrible Slytherin we meet in the books is Slughorn, who's still far from perfect and largely driven by self-interest. And I guess Snape was trying to do good but it was pretty much for entirely selfish reasons of his attachment to Lily, if not for that he would have been just fine palling around with the Hitler stand-in and his toadies.

Everyone else of any relevance is some combination of asshole, elitist, or bootlicking thug.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 16th 2018 at 11:54:44 AM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#11934: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:55:02 PM

Frankly, I wish she'd just not redeemed Slytherin and gone with, "This house is a dumpster fire."

Slughorn is the Token Good Teammate and that's because if you shove a hundred awful people in a house, one of them might get better even if just by comparison.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 16th 2018 at 8:55:51 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11935: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:56:45 PM

She kinda didn't. Like, she gave some Word of God Hand Waves to try and say Slytherin's Totes Not Evil, but the books are pretty clear on the matter when the entire House gets up and walks out on the Battle of Hogwarts.

And her going, "Uh, some of them came back I guess, whatever," after the fact doesn't change what's written in the text. The final verdict on House Slytherin is that they are, indeed, 100% shit-weasels.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#11936: Oct 16th 2018 at 8:58:03 PM

In Slughorn's Character Entry, he says he led the Slytherin back.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/HarryPotterHogwartsTeachers

I'm like, "When the fuck did that happen?"

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#11937: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:00:37 PM

Slughorn would be a deeply irritating character if he didn't like Harry. In a more talented writer's hands, the fact that he is a stereotypical False Meritocrat — collecting a coterie of mostly elite and famous people and writing it off as nurturing the talents of the worthy — would be skewered as the kind of attitude that promotes patron-client-based class barriers rather than educating anyone.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#11938: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:02:28 PM

That someone like Slughorn is the closest thing Slytherin has to a Token Good Teammate really says it all.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#11939: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:10:48 PM

[up][up] Heck. Even Harry is annoyed with him. And I like Sluggorn a bit. (Which says bad things about me, I'm afraid)

Thought this come back to Spartan' point. Rowling did a house whose main trait is "Cunning" and made them the Neo Nazi house. You're a sneaky cunning person with big plans for the future? Welcome to the Neo Nazi/Aristrocratic house of bullies.

You're brave? Hero!

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 16th 2018 at 11:14:11 AM

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11940: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:25:56 PM

Which is, itself, a harmful stereotype: the idea that bravery automatically equals goodness. A lot of terrible people are brave. Indeed, cowardice can be a virtue if it keeps someone from acting on other terrible traits.

If you've ever known someone who was like, "Well, I/everyone would totally be doing X if it wasn't illegal," that is a person whose impact on the world would be much more harmful if they only had the courage to take the risk.

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#11941: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:32:24 PM

I doubt we can call cowardice a virtue per se. Just that lucky personality trait that prevents someone from being worse.

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CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#11942: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:33:50 PM

Frankly, I think that's the definition of courage at work. Hurting weaker and innocent people can never be brave.

Cowardice is also situational. It is fear in the face of doing something which needs to be done or morally correct.

Sort of like The Balance Between Good and Evil is always nonsensical because evil is axiomatically unnecessary.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 16th 2018 at 9:34:53 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11944: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:36:55 PM

Courage. n. The ability to do something that frightens one.

The definition of courage makes no moral judgment on the act in question; only that it needs to be an act that is scary to the person doing it. It can take courage to commit your first murder. To join a gang. To betray someone you care about. To give your life for a cause - which, yes, can mean terrorism.

Courage is not exclusively virtuous.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 16th 2018 at 10:38:08 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#11945: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:38:46 PM

I like Slughorn as he's harmlessly eccentric, except of course the fact that he's playing favorites and all of the kids he sets up to play the Social Game are going to succeed over the people who he neglects.

But here's the thing, THEY REALLY NEED TO KNOW how to play the social game given what we've seen of Wizarding Society. It's very much a patronage-based system.

Which kind of fits my feelings here. When I was fourteen years old, I loved Raistlin Majere in Dragonlance because he was the smart, individualist, put upon nerd who was going to show them all. Only as an adult do I realize what a toxic dumpster fire of a person he was.

People seem to really want Slytherin to be the clever and ambitious people because they identify with those qualities but those qualities aren't the ones which are nurtured in Slytherin, or to change, they're nurtured in the same way they're nurtued in Silicon Valley.

They're nutrued to serve YOU and not the public.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#11946: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:41:10 PM

To put it simply: fear is your body's way of telling you that what you're about to do is not something that you should be doing. It's an emotional reflex that says you are in a bad situation and you need to get away from it. Sometimes the morally right thing to do is to push past that and do it anyway. But sometimes it would be best to listen.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 16th 2018 at 10:41:50 AM

My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#11947: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:41:31 PM

It reminds me when I was reading a LN and there were some POV from the Evil Overlord who was a utter textbook example of The Sociopath.

The guy belons in the Complete Monster list but...damn that he was brave. He was also utter selfish as a Manchildren yandere behind his cold exterior, but...he was brave. The class of person that don't give up and whose willpower alone is enough to alter reality. Absolute Bastard, but no Coward.

I'm actually fond of cases where the villain is brave. I remind a discussion in the CM thread where someone argued that because The Hero said that he admired the Big Bad' reckless and bravery, then the villain wouldn't count. We.decided that no, because admiring courage is just like admiring intelligence. Is a trait with no moral valor of its own.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Oct 16th 2018 at 11:44:17 AM

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Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#11948: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:42:45 PM

Cowardice is responsible for a considerable amount of evil. Cowardice is the vice responsible for much of the following: Paranoid dictatorships, unjustified police shootings, war crimes, mass hysteria.

Also, I would argue that cowardice is by definition something that causes evil or at least suffering. Otherwise, it's just intelligence.

And even then, cowardice isn't a virtue even if it prevents an evil person from doing something evil. Then it's just weakness. Yes, I prefer evil people to be 'weak', but that still makes it something to not desire.

Edited by Protagonist506 on Oct 16th 2018 at 9:46:15 AM

Leviticus 19:34
CrimsonZephyr Would that it were so simple. from Massachusetts Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Would that it were so simple.
#11949: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:44:14 PM

Slughorn is a teacher of teenagers, though, not among peers, and certainly not doing anything that would benefit them intellectually. He's hosting dinner parties for guests he personally thinks are impressive, for the hopes of extracting favors later in life. It's a totally inappropriate relationship. Plus, it inculcates the "not what you know, but who you know" ethos that has nurtured a culture of corruption and incompetence in the West.

So, yes, Slughorn can get fucked. He's trash.

"For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#11950: Oct 16th 2018 at 9:49:02 PM

In Wizard society, "who you know" IS what's important.

So, he's arguably teaching the most important skill they'll learn.

Teach reality not how you want it to be.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Oct 16th 2018 at 9:50:31 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.

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