Even then it’s iffy and in poor taste, super villains should be responsible for super disasters/events, not real ones, at least Captain America 2 kept it vague about what Hydra did to make the world chaotic.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran![]()
They're talking about making him an immortal who has been behind numerous events in Chinese history. I'm saying let's not go there.
He was in the sixties—he was born in the last days of the Qing, just before Sun Yatsen's revolution. Of course it being the sixties they didn't do much with it, since they still had him working with (and secretly ruling) Communist China.
Not really. The theme is there but it's superficial and the Mandarin simply would not care about Iron Fist, because Iron Fist is pretty much beneath his notice.
One thing I like about the enmity between Iron Man and Mandarin is that it's not immediately obvious what the theme is, but once you get it, it underwrites the entirety of the relationship. Tony Stark is a capitalist and industrialist, but more than that, he's a futurist, always trying to anticipate what comes next, always trying to think, in his own words, five minutes ahead of everybody else, and producing technology that is, if I may paraphrase those words, at least five years ahead of everybody else. The Mandarin, conversely, is a reactionary. He wants to go back in time to the era of feudal obligations and aristocratic rule, when blood alone would have made him master of the most populous nation in the world
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Reminds me of that Watchmen prequel comic.
Contrary to what the original may have insinuated, Comedian didn't assassinate Kennedy. He was dealing with Moloch at the time and they both saw the report. They were both horrified and put their hostilities on hold to mourn Kennedy.
The Nineties Iron Man animated series took the contrast between Iron Man and Mandarin to its logical conclusion. Mandarin's master plan is to use a powerful artifact to depower all technology, starting with China. It even adds some hypocrisy, which Tony points out, by having Mandarin don his own suit of Powered Armor when that plan fails.
edited 21st Jan '18 9:59:49 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedTurning Mandarin into a neoreactionary was one of Marvel's smarter moves. It allowed them to keep some—not all thankfully—of his Imperial Chinese theme without it coming off as over-the-top racism, since he's now consciously invoking the past. You could make him The Duke or The Boyar and the theme still works.
That's not to say the Yellow Peril cliches have been entirely filed off, because "ethnic Chinese Diabolical Mastermind in period dress who wants to rule the world" is still very much a stereotype, but it's less bad than it was, and makes him a part of a problematic trend rather than a horrid caricature in and of himself.
"super villains should be responsible for super disasters/events, not real ones, at least Captain America 2 kept it vague about what Hydra did to make the world chaotic.¡
On the other hand it become kind annoying when cómic Book mantain this artificial separation betweem Super Stuff snd "real" Stuff, to the point of doging the implication of their action.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Contrast the first film, which decided to make HYDRA be even more evil than the Nazis and required Cap to save Berlin from nuclear destruction. I shuddered watching that film.
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While there are a number of issues with the film (Hydra going from being Nazis to generic villains at light speed) I’m actually okay with that, it was a super threat, it’s when they make super villains responsible for real tragedies that it gets painful for me.
Personally, I feel as though in a setting where superhumans and supernatural things exist-particularly if the world is controlled by such things-it makes sense to have some real catastrophes be caused via those things.
Leviticus 19:34Maybe, but it also depends on how we define "humanity". IE, if Osama Bin Laden was actually a wizard, he's still part of humanity.
Leviticus 19:34
I anything, I said that superhero often suffer for the other way around:separating the muggle world and the super one so much that they dont try to point out the efect their heroic have on people, specially when a city get destroyed or something like that.
I mean let take a look, cant we? in Marvel we have: one city(sokovia) being wiped out thanks to the actions of one avenger(and one HYDRA member being forgiven for her action) one international security organization being compromised by super nazis, and now the organization who protect you(the avenger) decide to punch each other and disbanded....
Yeah the marvel verse should be downright grimdark but the lack of focus on the human themselves prevent to for being like that.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"![]()
Necessary Weasel. Don't look at it.
I was thinking about the At Least I Admit It trope and when it is used for sympathy for the Card-Carrying Villain because he dont try to justify himself.
Like, I have see similar behavior with modern racists (the ones younger than 30) and the Alt Right, heck, the Alt right is practically build on that trope. "Yeah, I am a asshole, but I am honest about it, unlike those hypocrital lefties!"
Watch me destroying my country
not really, the alt right pass from admiting their bad part to revel in them or even justifying by saying western world is colapsing because of minorities and women.
The trope only work when the other is unware of the side efect of what is doing, is self rightious about it or is just a dick who isnt unware of it, Neither of that Apply to social justicy, at worst they can be dickish every now and them and make some blunder but that it.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
There variations, but damn that there a lot of awful people that use the trope to claim that they are not really that bad as they are.
And dunno about the trope, I think that it can be used even if the other side is not being hypocrite.
edited 22nd Jan '18 5:21:24 AM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countryTBF, the trope page description itself points out this trope can be a positive or a negative.
If presented negatively, the Admitter is taken to be at least as bad if not outright worse than the other party because at least the other has reasons for their behaviour or needs some kind of excuse for their actions, while the Admitter is essentially confessing that they either don't need excuses or that their own reasons are just as bad as their misdeeds. It can also turn out that the Admitter is simply wrong or outright lying about being "honest" in the first place, either with others or with themselves, in either case earning them a Shut Up, Hannibal! from another character.
In as much as fictional tropes can be applied to real people, I'd say the bolded part is probably the most applicable where the alt-right is concerned. The alt-right after all are full of shit.
edited 22nd Jan '18 5:34:54 AM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprisedI’d say that Harry Potter did a good job of having the fictional and real connected when it came to events, grindelwald‘s war occurred at the same time as World War Two and both wars fed into each other and crossed over, however they were separate wars with separate people with separate motives, they just culturally fed into each other and the kind of atmosphere that creates war.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI wonder what influence the following tropes and concepts had on society, specifically regarding pragmatism, anti-intellectualism and politics.
- Brains Evil, Brawn Good and the separate tropes, Dumb Muscle and Dumb Is Good.
- Related is Jerk Jock, a Bully subtype that seems to have a dynamic that tends to inverts the former.
- Manipulative Bastard and his charismatic counterpart Magnificent Bastard.
edited 22nd Jan '18 1:22:14 PM by MorningStar1337
Wonder Woman did a fantastic job with this by spending much of the plot building up the idea that Ares is responsible for World War I existing and then turning around at the end and being like, "Nope. World War I is a product of human failings. Ares just built some cool guns and shit."
...
And then they turned around and completely undermined it by having Wonder Woman beat up Ares with violence and promptly end the war. So close then f*cked it all away. But, y'know. They tried, at least.
My Tumblr. Currently side-by-side liveblogging Digimon Adventure, sub vs dub.
Is a Superhero movie, of couse she had to beat someone that is a actual threat. It dont change that Ludendorf and Dr. Poison were the villains of the story and that they werent used for Ares, Ares actually was genuinely helping them. Humans Are the Real Monsters and Humans Are Flawed was all the aesop of the film, Ares exist as someone that will lampshade it.
I dont see how Ares ruin the message, if anything, he helps it.
Beating Ares did not end the war, the war was going to end soon but Ludendoff said No and Ares helped him to go with it, Ares was just someone that prolonged it.
edited 22nd Jan '18 1:45:15 PM by KazuyaProta
Watch me destroying my countryExcept that's literally not what happens because the film takes place on November 11. The war is, to all intents and purposes, already over. The armistice negotiations are taking place. Ludendorff, Poison, and Ares are standing in the way of said negotiations and are attempting to undermine them, but the entirety of World War I has already played out offstage, and what we are watching is a last ditch effort by a fanatic German officer and his lunatic chemist, with a behind the scenes assist from the God of War, to restart the conflict before peace can be made.
Seriously, Wonder Woman didn't fight World War I, and Ares didn't make it happen in the first place. Wonder Woman stops Ares from restarting the war after humanity has fought through the entirety of the real life historical war and has decided, collectively, that it should be over. The only people who stop fighting when Ares is beaten are Ludendorff's little group of holdouts, who've just seen their boss killed, his right-hand woman disgraced and humiliated, their superweapon destroyed, and an on spot the battle between two deities. But that's a grand total of what, a couple hundred soldiers? The whole of the multimillion man German Army it is not.
edited 22nd Jan '18 1:45:10 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Is the Mandarin supposed to be at all supernatural? I thought he was a science-and-martial-arts guy?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.