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How do the dominant cultural narratives in art and mass media affect our politics?

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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#2901: Jan 21st 2018 at 2:14:53 PM

[up][up][up]He try to get thug creed but...not, he is still a thug in behivor, as you can imagine that have divide the fanbase.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#2902: Jan 21st 2018 at 2:27:11 PM

The Mandarin plot twist had Unfortunate Implications for me, though mostly because it sounds like something a 9/11-Conspiracy Theorist would come up with. It even seems to nod to this by mentioning Bin Laden by name.

Leviticus 19:34
Rynnec Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2903: Jan 21st 2018 at 4:05:07 PM

They should of just made Mandarin a Darth Vader Clone like he was in Armored Adventures and the Disk Wars anime.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#2904: Jan 21st 2018 at 5:36:05 PM

[up][up][up]I think one reason "thug" villains aren't as popular may be because they hit too close to home.

The charismatic "cool" supervillain isn't really seen in real life that often, if at all. We're far more likely to encounter petulant and whiny assholes with way too much power.

edited 21st Jan '18 5:36:23 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#2905: Jan 21st 2018 at 5:57:04 PM

I mean thug as being needlessly violent and Agressive, the Sith code is based on being as Agressive as possible, just that their individual members channel that aggression in different ways.

The Sith code is a cancer

Watch me destroying my country
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#2906: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:00:57 PM

Speaking of codes, what is with the anti-Jedi/anti-Force sentiments both in and out of the Star Wars universes? Also, how should had the Mandarin should had been portrayed in Iron Man?

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#2907: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:04:38 PM

Bringing up the Sith and Jedi Code issue will likely derail the thread again.

As for the Mandarin...he should at the very least be portrayed by an Asian actor. That'd be a start.

edited 21st Jan '18 6:05:03 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#2908: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:04:46 PM

[up][up]being violent is not enought for Being a thug, thugs are violent and low key, while sith tend to have a Aura of megalomanía around them.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
GAP Formerly G.G. from Who Knows? Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: In love with love
Formerly G.G.
#2909: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:06:34 PM

[up][up] I will ask in another thread,

"Fan, a Mega Man character."
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#2910: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:07:47 PM

Since Batman got mentioned in this thread, and because of something I read in another thread, I was reminded of another problematic trope: Insane Equals Violent.

How much do you think the rather insufficient mental healthcare of the USA is due to this trope being prevalent in fiction? It does seem to perpetuate the idea that people with mental health issues are violent criminals who are beyond saving.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#2911: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:08:54 PM

[up][up][up]When I think of thugs I don't really think of low key, they can be but the term itself just means someone who's aggressive and violent (with the implication of lacking sophistication or finesse).

edited 21st Jan '18 6:09:00 PM by Fourthspartan56

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
TroperOnAStickV2 Call me Stick from Redneck country Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
Call me Stick
#2912: Jan 21st 2018 at 6:38:56 PM

I think by "low key" unknowing did mean "lacking sophistication and finesse".

... despite technically not being what "low key" means.

edited 21st Jan '18 6:39:49 PM by TroperOnAStickV2

Hopefully I'll feel confident to change my avatar off this scumbag soon. Apologies to any scumbags I insulted.
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#2913: Jan 21st 2018 at 7:28:18 PM

This isn’t specific to Shin Megami Tensei IV, but to the core Shin Megami Tensei in general. Because the game is more about survival, on average male figures have a better chance to survive than females that’s why the games lean towards more male characters. Of course, there are very strong females, strong willed and females with strong physique, that survive, so we hand pick a few of those strong female archetypes to represent the female side.

Said for Masayuki Doi for why SMT don't have many female characters

This is officially the dumbest thing that I have read from him, like, females have a bad rate of survival but teenage nerds don't?

All SMT protagonists survive only because they had the Demon Summoning program in some device, or because they become the host for a demonic Parasite. How this affect the gender rate makes no sense.

I mean, Doi is not sexist and later he admit that the reason why he didn't add a female MC was because the older staff didn't want to change too much in SMT IV, which was a homage to the first two games in SNES, he wanted design a female MC but ultimately the rest of the staff said no, he would like one.

I guess that's why Flynn and Nanashi, the protagonists designed for Doi are so androgynous.

Seriously, what's up with a entire company don't wanting to add a female main character from a franchise with few dialogue and almost zero focus into personal relationships? Is just weird.

Even people that believe that they're subversive can fail into bigotry, right?

I think that, when a game had a Player Character that is mean to be a avatar of the player, a Female version should be a must.

Right?

edited 21st Jan '18 7:31:20 PM by KazuyaProta

Watch me destroying my country
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#2914: Jan 21st 2018 at 7:42:16 PM

[up][up]yeah, it was my faulty english, low key was the only thing it comes to my mind but is pretty much low level violence.

Is the main diferent between nazis and neo nazis: the former have uniform, complex belives build on violence while Many neo nazis just want to punch things.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#2915: Jan 21st 2018 at 7:51:44 PM

[up]The Nazis had a military force backed by the infrastructure of a nation.

Neo-Nazis don't have those, but they're every bit as vicious.

...Dammit why do Nazis keep coming up in this thread?

edited 21st Jan '18 7:53:10 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#2916: Jan 21st 2018 at 7:56:32 PM

Nazis were just thugs with good clothes, their very ideology sounded like something from thug obsessed with gang fights in control of a country and a Anime villain.

I mean, State created with the intention of destroying other states. Hitler hated the idea of states.

Hitler didn't view The Jews as a force corrupting civilization, he saw them as the builders of civilization.

And Hitler had a Howard-esque view of how Civilization was a mistake and dreams of a glorious vital past of manly badasses. Jews were corrupting humanity because they created civilization.

Watch me destroying my country
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2917: Jan 21st 2018 at 8:33:35 PM

2887:

This is probably too sensitive for Chinese censors, but the KMT man got me thinking.

The Mandarin could turn out to be a former member of the infamous Taiwan Garrison Command. A fierce anti-communist, he has swung to the far right and wants to revive the Blueshirts through the Ten Rings. He revels in the fear and "order" brought on the "ungrateful" Taiwanese in the 2/28 incident, happily recounting the days where he drove through the countryside as his bodyguards gunned down every Taiwanese in sight For the Evulz.

Funnily enough, he has disdain for both Chiang Kai-shek and Chiang Ching-kuo - the former for losing the mainland to godless Marxism and "throwing himself into the laps of foreigners for military aid", the latter for ending martial law which "plunged Taiwan into anarchy". He thinks Sun Yat-sen is a traitor for cooperating with the Comintern.

Instead, he cites often from the Book of Lord Shang. Example: a mook fails to capture Tony Stark. The Mandarin brings in the guy's entire family and condemns all to death, before his guards drag them off.

He plans to retake the mainland and subject all non Han Chinese to authoritarian rule. His methods of suppressing dissent will be eerily similar to those used by the Argentine military junta in the 1970s-80s. All those who oppose him will be branded "Communist bandit spies" and sent off to be tortured and killed. His plans for the Uyghurs and Tibetans will be nothing short of genocide.

As his plans get more grandiose, he shifts from wanting to be a dictator to crowning himself emperor, wishing to conquer China's other Asian neighbors plus Russia (plus annexing India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Mongolia) and subject them all to his rule as divine emperor of China, before going to war with the decadent West.

Bonus points if he rails about the Japanese and their "Greater Co-Prosperity sphere", but the irony of his current grand vision for China's future is lost on him.

TL;DR: The Mandarin could be Chinese nationalism taken to extremes, although political backstory will never pass Chinese censors.

edited 21st Jan '18 8:49:55 PM by TheWildWestPyro

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#2918: Jan 21st 2018 at 8:44:43 PM

[up] I suppose it would be a chance of pace from villainous Chinese people being associated with Triads or Communists.

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2919: Jan 21st 2018 at 8:46:10 PM

[up]

True, although it'll never get past the censors.

Honestly, wanting to revive the Chinese monarchy is a very villainous trope in many Chinese works nowadays.

The far-right stance of the Mandarin is another poke at the alt-right, and some of the more annoying Asian nationalism I've seen online.

Also, outside of the mainland, the history of KMT-run China doesn't get much media coverage. So a KMT-aligned Mandarin would be fun, but I doubt that Marvel can even try without China outright saying no.

edited 21st Jan '18 8:48:34 PM by TheWildWestPyro

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#2920: Jan 21st 2018 at 8:56:47 PM

[up] Considering it's depicting someone who opposed the CCP in a villainous light, maybe the CCP would let this one slide. If only to say "See, Communists are the good guys in China!"

It'd raise more of a fuss in Taiwan, of course.

edited 21st Jan '18 8:58:30 PM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2921: Jan 21st 2018 at 9:18:47 PM

[up]

I'm wary of it offending the KMT, as it's certain that some hardline DPP supporters will use it as ammunition in the never-ending two-party mudslinging.

Plus, while the KMT made the mistake of being horrendously cruel to to the locals in their first few years on the island (1945 onwards), they eventually realized that securing Formosan loyalty was a good idea. Several years of good governance, relative stability and economic reform followed, although the military police always lurked in the background, ready to arrest, interrogate and imprison dissidents for life/execute "bandits".

On the other hand, the Mandarin swinging from wanting to be a fascist dictator into becoming Emperor of China might alleviate some of this, as his motives go from authoritarian to imperialistic. The KMT were fiercely anti-imperialist and anti-colonialist, with Chiang pleading with the Soviets to hand Puyi over so he could have the former emperor shot.

edited 21st Jan '18 9:25:20 PM by TheWildWestPyro

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#2922: Jan 21st 2018 at 9:39:47 PM

I think a more workable Mandarin would be for him to be some kind of Chinese Vandal Savage. A trusted officer of the original emporer Shi Huangdi assigned with the task of discovering a way to immortality, who accidentally makes himself immortal in the process.

TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#2923: Jan 21st 2018 at 9:44:39 PM

The original Mandarin is a half-British, full Blue Blood, Impoverished Patrician with entitlement issues and a talent for tech and martial arts. He cosplays as a functionary of the Empire (either of them) but wasn't born when China was still Imperial.

Hm. Could be a good Foil to Danny Rand.

I mean, this we can work with. The mixed ancestry is full of potential for interesting questions. We could bring up the worst of both British and English nationalism and upper class culture. Let's start by sending him to Eton, it's such a perfect sociopath factory.

edited 21st Jan '18 9:45:30 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2924: Jan 21st 2018 at 9:47:20 PM

[up][up]

Bonus points if his reaction to the monarchy falling was to influence both Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Zedong into becoming brutal autocratic despots, essentially screwing over China and Taiwan out of revenge and spite.

Plus he's revealed to have secretly assassinated Sun Yat-sen, and killed Yuan Shikai when the new "Emperor" wasn't turning out to be very good.

edited 21st Jan '18 9:48:05 PM by TheWildWestPyro

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#2925: Jan 21st 2018 at 9:50:15 PM

Plus he's revealed to have secretly assassinated Sun Yat-sen, and killed Yuan Shikai when the new "Emperor" wasn't turning out to be very good.

Let's not. I hate this stuff. Blaming real human catastrophe caused by human stupidity and malice on supernatural agencies always bothers me (the worst example is undoubtedly the various iterations of We Didn't Start the Führer).

edited 21st Jan '18 9:55:21 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar


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