Law & Order

As I make my way through original L&O, I thought I'd start a topic on this. Classic is always going to be my favorite. Criminal Intent was good because it had Goren and Eames but it was just a crime show, very little of what makes L&O special. And SVU...well, just look at the Dethroning page to get my views on it. The one where they just would not stop harassing the guy dating the woman who only looked like a girl, and ended with them basically saying "he's a horrible monster but we can't stop him...." still makes me sick. It is just bad drama about rape and our "heroes'" personal lives with nothing interesting to say.

I love L&O because it has great characters but they aren't the focus. The focus is the cause, the good fight and the message. The personalities of these people effect things because that's how it goes down in the real world but it isn't about them. They are merely agents in the system we justice.

For my money, the best cast will always be Season 5's. Logan, Briscoe and Van Buren for Law an dMcCoy, Kincaid and Schiff for Order. I think it's pretty awesome the most iconic characters in the show are a couple old dudes. Briscoe and Mc Coy deserve all the props, though. Amazing acting from Orbach and Waterston.

I'm on Season 11 now and I'm glad Abbie is no longer her horrible bloodthristy Season 9 self. Claire will always be my favorite ADA though, at least for the foreseeable future. I really miss Adam, Nora just doesn't have a lot of....I dunno how to describe it.

So far the episodes that hit me the hardest was this one where a poor kid got sent to prison for murder while the rich snob kid got off, this one where a prison guard who set up the murder of an inmate got off and just now where an 18-year-old gets sentenced to death. (I oppose the Death Penalty very hard IRL)

So that's my piece to start off with. What say you all? Favorite shows, characters, episodes?

I liked all the Law and Order shows to some degree, but I never saw Conviction and don't have any plans to. Favorite main characters across the franchise are Mike Logan, Lennie Briscoe, Anita Van Buren, Ed Green, Cyrus Lupo, Jack Mc Coy, Jamie Ross, Robert Goren, and Rafael Barba.

I'm a fan. I generally take it as it comes (as I do with a lot of media). I own most of the seasons on DVD. I'm talking about the original.

edited 22nd Jan '17 12:53:23 PM by DreamCord

I love SVU and, as someone who looks much younger than my age, that episode pissed me off so much.

Wasn't the point of that episode that the guy was a suspected pedophile (well...ephebophile technically) and they were worried that that girl would be dumped as soon as she stopped looking like a child? We're taking the episode with the girl who has Turner's, yes?

I don't mind SVU. It does get a little too angsty often, but it's had some good points. Mainly Munsch and Fin. Fin and Munsch are probably my fav team after Goren and Eames. And SVU had Huang, and still has Barba. Huang and Barba are boss.

edited 15th Dec '16 9:18:25 PM by Sisi

Found this today and I had to share it. Some of the most ridiculous fake websites in the franchise:

I've been watching the Law and Order shows on and off since I was a kid. They tend to get a lot of flack now that a lot of shows have moved to more arc-based storytelling, but I love them. Even (or especially) when they get ridiculous.

I don't think he ever actually did anything illegal. They just decided he was a creep because they saw him with the young woman who looks like a young teen, and assumed he must be a pedophile. But my memory of this episode is extremely vague, I haven't seen it in years, so this could be way off of what actually happens. But I remember them saying several times that, essentially, it's creepy and wrong that someone would date her even though she's an adult. And that last part is what made me dislike it so much.

edited 2nd Jan '17 7:07:30 PM by Zanthype

The weird thing about me being a fan (at least in my own mind), is that I'm actually a defense-oriented person. Sometimes, on the show, I even want the defense to win if the rationales the EAD As use really seem to push the envelope, and that just seems iffy when it comes to the law.

edited 31st Jan '17 9:46:33 PM by DreamCord

Hello. I'm pushing for the Law & Order character pages to be centralized akin to the other franchise pages such as Marvel Cinematic Universe, DC Extended Universe, Buffyverse, Arrowverse, and the likes (I directly crosswicked them to their character pages for you guys to see what what I'm trying to suggest) because not only are they very interconnected but SVU's character page is getting crowded and in need of splitting, so I'm thinking why not do all the work for all the pages in one process.

Anyway, here are my plans for the L&O pages:

Split the characters into sub-pages like the 27th precinct (parent series cop characters), 16th precinct (SVU cop characters), Major Case Squad (CI cop characters), Attorney's office (the lawyer characters go there), Criminals (self explanatory), FBI, Forensics Unit (the medical expert characters), Government, Military, Civilians, maybe even family members. You get the idea.

Some characters may need their own individual pages too given their tenure in the franchise, specifically Donald Cragen, Mike Logan, Lennie Briscoe, Anita Van Buren, Jack McCoy, Ed Green, John Munch, Olivia Benson, Elliot Stabler, Fin Tuotola.

Any suggestions are welcome.

I strangely enough agree with your suggestion and would be happy to help with your project.

Thanks. Been busy these past days so sorry for late reply.

You planning on adding characters from the wider Law and Order universe (such as One Chicago) as well or not?

Since the One Chicago franchise is not as intertwined in the L&O shows as much, I guess no (at least for now). Speaking of which, I think the Chicago franchise could be centralized too but that's a different story altogether.

P.S. I'm gonna be busy with work until the 26th (25th in western countries) so I will likely not be able to reply as much until then, so apologies in advance for my likely late responses.

Edited by ShivaHellfire on Oct 21st 2020 at 11:13:28 AM

I'm back. Sorry took longer than I promised. Anyway, I already mentioned my plans so if anyone else have suggestions let's hear it. :)

My suggestion of how the character pages should be organised (looking through the tropes associated with the aforementioned characters that you think deserve their own pages, unfortunately there's not enough tropes to warrent their own seperate pages):

Law Enforcement (FBI, Forensics Unit/the medical expert characters) - 27th precinct (parent series cop characters) - 16th precinct (SVU cop characters) - Major Case Squad (CI cop characters) Attorney's office (the lawyer characters) Civilians (Criminals, family members, etc) Others (Government, Military)

They just decided he was a creep because they saw him with the young woman who looks like a young teen, and assumed he must be a pedophile. But my memory of this episode is extremely vague, I haven't seen it in years, so this could be way off of what actually happens.

They IIRC dug up some dirt on him to support that in an attempt to get rid of him but I don't remember the specifics of what it was.

My suggestion of how the character pages should be organised (looking through the tropes associated with the aforementioned characters that you think deserve their own pages, unfortunately there's not enough tropes to warrent their own seperate pages):

Law Enforcement (FBI, Forensics Unit/the medical expert characters) - 27th precinct (parent series cop characters) - 16th precinct (SVU cop characters) - Major Case Squad (CI cop characters) Attorney's office (the lawyer characters) Civilians (Criminals, family members, etc) Others (Government, Military)

Stabler and Benson's entries are getting quite large, plus the former is transplanting to headline his own show (Law & Order: Organized Crime if you haven't heard of it yet) soon. Speaking of which, the reason I suggested Donald Cragen, Mike Logan, and Lennie Briscoe is due to them being main characters of two different series but otherwise I agree with you. BTW, Munch has his own page here.

As for the the character page arrangements, I think Criminals deserve their own pages especially if tropers want to add the numerous villains of the week. How about the Forensic, medical experts, TARUs be in the Other NYPD Units instead since I think FBI should be either under the Government section or have their own page (two main characters, George Huang and Nola Falacci, are members, plus a number of recurring ones like Dana Lewis)

Ok, I agree with you there then. When are you planning on starting this epic challenge?

The ways things are here, around November 2 (November 1 in Western countries). There's a major storm coming here so electricity may be unstable for a while.

Originally I was good to start at the 26th immediately after work like I mentioned before, but I got sick for like two days.

Edited by ShivaHellfire on Oct 31st 2020 at 7:48:14 AM

Update: Turns out the storm wasn't that bad (thankfully) , but I think I'll still start around November 2 to both make sure the storm's fully out and allow any more suggestions to come (otherwise it's just mine and our friend The10thGeek here).

I would suggest that you link to Chicago P.D., as Hank Voight, Jay Halstead and Erin Lindsay all guest starred in SVU. Also don't forget the character page for it's British spin-off, Law and Order: UK.

Sorry if I've been gone a while, a lot has come up.

Anyway, I PM'd users (Iliarts, Marauder09, and Little Dancer Girl in particular) who are active on the L&O pages and invited them here to hear their take. In the meantime, I'll do some edits to the character pages to ease the "transition", just in case.

Edited by ShivaHellfire on Jan 4th 2021 at 11:25:57 AM

Given how huge the pages are, as well as the general way the site works, I think it's probably necessary to keep them separate (SVU needs to be broken down as is), but it's probably worth putting links in the descriptions of characters who are mains on multiple shows (so Munch, Logan, and Peter Stone at the moment, and Stabler once that gets off the ground) to the character pages of those series. So, for example, at the end of Munch's bio, something like "For tropes relating to the character's appearance on Homicide, see here".

As far as breaking the SVU page into sub-pages, the way I would do it is:

• Major Characters — that's probably everyone under "Current" and "Former" and a couple from "Police" that are particularly well-known (i.e. Tucker) or who were basically non-main titles regulars (i.e. Mike Dodds). Those can be organized further with headers on the page.
• Other Law Enforcement: Everyone under "Police" who doesn't qualify for the "Main Characters" page (although there's a few empty folders we can probably just delete), other agencies (FBI/DEA), and the tech/CSU characters. '''This could also be a place to put a few crossover guest characters, like Briscoe/Green, Eames, the Chicago detectives, etc., with a few tropes relating to the guest appearance and then links to the page for their home shows.
• Judicial System: Literally just transplant everything under the "Judicial System" header to its own page.
• Family Members: Same as for "Judicial System".
• Other Characters: Everyone else. "Antagonists" (I'd go with that rather than "Villains" because that can encompass characters like Sheila Porter as well as the Big Bads) can be a header on this page, but it's just not a big enough category (assuming we're sticking with particularly memorable ones) to be its own page.

I'd be willing to start this off, but I can't figure out how to create sub-pages, and I suspect it's an access issue. If I'm wrong and someone can tell me how to do it, I'll do the initial rough breakdown.

Edited by Iliarts on Jan 4th 2021 at 12:38:22 PM

Some characters do warrant their own page, IMO (Cragen, Olivia, Elliot, specifically; I'd even argue Logan, Briscoe, McCoy, Green, and Fin), though I get what you're trying to say.

Personally, I don't mind creating these pages since I've been contributing pages to this site for over a year now (check the DC Comics and Professional Wrestling pages if you're interested).

TBH, I wouldn't mind having a "Dick Wolf universe" page to include the One Chicago and FBI franchises.

In the meantime I put headers on the character pages on which character appeared in a certain show. That way I guess it would be easier to sort them out.

Original L&A is the perfect "Nothing's on for an hour" show, and the older episodes are fun time capsules.