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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#51: Dec 31st 2016 at 10:18:16 AM

Bruce being a loner has always been more of an informed trait and there are only three Kryptonians right now

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#52: Dec 31st 2016 at 1:43:58 PM

I'd bring in the Superfriends ethnic characters and use a mixture of the YJ and JLU versions

Static

Tye Longshadow

Ed Dorado

Asami Koizumi

Shift and Downpour would be attempts to replicate Martian shape shifting in humans. Also Tye's powers would be similar to Armor from X-men.

VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#53: Dec 31st 2016 at 2:42:15 PM

Robbery: Ms Marvel is a Captain Marvel fangirl, but they're pretty separate.

Wonder Girl is a whole continuity snarl and I don't know what her story is.

Ukrainian Red Cross
BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
#54: Jan 1st 2017 at 9:55:29 AM

[up] Well here is what I got with Donna Troy. Basically she is among these Star children who were set up to be the new titans of the universe. Because of some kind of tragedy that happened, the children are sent to different worlds with no memories of their cosmic godlike origins. This is where Donna appears in that burning building saved by Wonder Woman and adopted into the Amazon.

Well that's what I took away from the whole Who is Donna Troy story arc in Teen Titans. The whole thing as is is too convoluted; especially once we get into Darkstar.

Seriously, once I work on the Teen Titans part of my revised DC universe. First thing I will do is give Donna a coherent origin.

edited 1st Jan '17 9:57:15 AM by BigK1337

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Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#55: Jan 1st 2017 at 10:39:03 AM

I meant the Cassie Sandsmark Wonder Girl (is she still around?) , not the Donna Troy one. I'm a Wolfman/ Perez Titans fan from way back, and I know Donna's origins ( pre-New 52 anyway) in all their convoluted glory) pretty well.

As far as sidekicks, isn't Kid Flash (whoever may be serving as Kid Flash right now) pretty contingent on The Flash?

edited 1st Jan '17 10:42:00 AM by Robbery

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
#56: Jan 1st 2017 at 10:44:43 AM

[up] Oh her. It's pretty simple really, she is the daughter of Zeus making her demigod and she is a fangirl of Donna.

On the Kid Flash thing, yeah they are all dependent on the Flash identity compare to the other Titans who adopted their own (Nightwing, Troia, Arsenal, Tempest, Red Hood, Red Robin).

edited 1st Jan '17 10:51:52 AM by BigK1337

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BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
#57: Jan 2nd 2017 at 1:10:00 PM

Currently I am working on a revised Marvel and DC universe, just to update a lot of the characters and story by taking inspiration from different sources involving these characters like comics, movies and tv shows.

To start, I am work on Justice League of America which will depict the early days of the team with a few changes:

  • The team's formation will be funded by the American government under one of their agency. I am debating whether to go with Checkmate, DEO or A.R.G.U.S. as the agency that formed this team, but all signs are going to the DEO due to the organization specializing in monitoring extra normal beings and the fact that liaison from the agency will be Martian Manhunter in his John Jones (sort of a reference to his role in Supergirl).
  • The team normally don't have a leader, but here that role is shared by three members of the team: Martian Manhunter (mission control), Aquaman (field leader) and Wonder Woman (secondary leader). Normally Superman and Batman will have these roles, but I decided to have the former be more of an 11th-Hour Ranger (pretty much showing up when they need an unbeatable threat defeated) and the latter is The Sneaky Guy (because that is Batman's specialty, gathering information on the opponents they are dealing with and not really being sociallble with the team).
  • As far as secret identity goes with the team, only Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and Aquaman are publicly known. John Jones true identity as the Martian Manhunter are only known by the members of the League and the Doom Patrol (I'll explain that relation when I write my full plans in my Tumblr blog). Superman's identity is only known by the entire town of Smallville (which is their secret in allowing Clark to lead a relatively normal life), his family, Lois, and Batman. Batman and the Flash only share their identities with close friends and family members.
  • The origin of the team will be a composite of DC New Frontier in terms of scale and the team's first appearance in Brave and the Bold #25, with Starro being the first villain the team faced instead of the White Martians or Darkseid.

And that is all I have on this take.

Anyway, here's the concept designs I came up for the characters. Right now it is just the founding members of the Justice League that are posted.

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indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#58: Jan 3rd 2017 at 8:46:50 AM

Not quite a reinvention idea, but I'd say superhero comics in general would really benefit from preparing and releasing a universe bible regarding characters, concepts, consistent violations of physics laws etc. When you think about it, these are things we all take for granted in any other genre, including a good deal of fantasy and soft sci-fi. Sure, a strange swirly energy thing can do all sorts of damage to the Enterprise, but it's when Spock can survive without a brain that people cry foul, because unless stated otherwise in advance, it's taken for granted that he shouldn't. I reckon it would greatly improve storytelling consistency if writers follow some physical guidelines as to how things are supposed to work, even if it's about as close to actual natural laws as the rules in a role-playing game.

Particularly regarding character power levels, it would be useful to clarify a scale of effort and result. As in, character easily does X, strains to do Y, and can't possibly do Z. Because otherwise, not only do victories often amount to lucky contrivances, but actual character traits are changed so as to facilitate an easy way out. Knowing a character's limits makes it much more rewarding to see him reach them, or just barely go over the line, at a considerable physical toll.

Same goes for technology - a previously introduced assortment of gadgets with particular properties makes for a much more engaging experience than having Batman pull whatever he wants out of his belt in the spur of the moment, because "prep-time".

All in all, consistency isn't a four letter word. When the next inevitable universe reboot comes around, it would be nice to have editors engage in some genuine world-building for a change.

edited 3rd Jan '17 8:47:01 AM by indiana404

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#59: Jan 3rd 2017 at 9:10:24 AM

The Fatal Five.

These guys have the same issue as a lot of supervillains created in the Golden and Silver Ages; namely that while the writers gave the cool powers to the heroes, the villains clearly drew the SHORT straw. It's telling that the only consistent challenge are the Legion of Supervillains whose powers are either the same as the LOSH or designed to counteract them. Outside_85 pretty much covered all the issues well in his post. Personally, here's how I would upgrade them.

Tharok: His design is way to outdated for something that should be futuristic. I'd give him a design and powers similar to the Engineer of the Authority or the new version of Cyborg.

Mano: He can disintegrate matter at a distance and doesn't need his hands to do it. He can also reconstruct it.

Validus: Just make him smarter.

Persuader: Tougher armor and more weapons than the axe.

EMERALD Empress: This is the most radical change I'd make. She won't rely on the Eye (as Outside said, there's an issue of who is in control) and make her a powerful telekinetic. There is precedent for it in the Pre-Zero Hour version though she was pretty weak. The Eye can still appear but it won't be a device the Empress relies on.

I'd also suggest maybe expanding their roster beyond just five members and include people like Flare and Mentalla. Of course, they wouldn't be called the Fatal Five anymore.

I'd position them as the Lawful Evil counterparts to the Legion of Supervillains.

Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#60: Jan 3rd 2017 at 10:09:42 AM

[up][up] It's a noble goal, but such a thing has been tried before, at various times. Unless you had a strong editorial mandate, and an editor-in-chief who was actually willing to ride herd on the individual editors, I have to think such a guideline would only last until somebody chose to invoke the Rule of Cool.

indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#61: Jan 3rd 2017 at 1:00:15 PM

It doesn't have to be that inflexible. Picture it like a role-playing game supplement - properly done, it becomes a veritable toybox for writers to pick whatever they like at a glance, knowing it still fits into the overall world. Kinda like how Terry Pratchett started using the Ankh-Morpork Map for Watch stories. Imagine having a Gotham model in the writers' room for the staff to mull things over - "So Batman swoops in through here, punches Bane over there, while the Joker is watching from that window..."

Speaking of Gotham, I'd enforce the gothic aesthetic with a vengeance, rather than play the city a realistic New York/Chicago analog. Creepy old-fashioned mobster noir is still intriguing and alluring in some way, there's the mystical glamor, the classy melancholy in it all. The moment things look straight out of a modern crime scene, is the moment I reach for the latest Punisher book, because that's his deal.

Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#62: Jan 3rd 2017 at 1:22:35 PM

I actually recall that the old Mayfair DC Heroes Role-Playing Game (which I still have sitting in a box somewhere) had maps of Metropolis, Gotham, etc, as well as lists and descriptions of their various neighborhoods and whatnot. I've run into references to those neighborhoods in various comics stories (Chuck Dixon frequently liked to make use of them in Batman stories), so this makes me think that those maps were at one point meant to be official.

I recall that sometime in the early 90's DC had the guy who designed Gotham City for Burton's Batman redesign Gotham for the comics; I don't think the idea lasted long. If the artists are just drawing buildings, skyscrapers and whatnot, it's not at all hard for them to get reference material. If they have to make the architecture look a certain way, it's likely going to slow them down a bit. None of this is to say I think you're idea is a bad one, because I don't (I actually think it's a great idea) but it's likely to have logistical problems.

Heck, I'd just like them once and for all to decide where all the various cities are in relation to each other. Are Gotham and Metropolis across the bay from each other (as in Dawn of Justice) or are they across the country from each other (as in the the DCAU)? And Smallville had Metropolis only a few hours drive from Smallville, which traditionally is supposed to be in Kansas.

edited 3rd Jan '17 1:24:49 PM by Robbery

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
#63: Jan 3rd 2017 at 5:31:56 PM

[up]x5 I agree. Besides the fact that I am currently working on something like that with my Revised Universe (btw, just created templates for character profiles; might post it later for anybody who wants to use it), I like reading up on the characters information to get a good idea as to who they are and what can they do specifically. References like those DK Books and Wikia sites are always helpful in providing precise information of the characters and universe that the comics hardly touch upon; especially the Marvel wikis which provide statistics on the characters they talk about (said statistics I decided to borrow for my universe because it is that good IMO).

[up]x4 Like the ideas you have on the Fatal Five. I disagree on adding members; they're not the Fearsome Five don'tcha know, they're not a weak team that needs more members. As for things I really agree on:

  • Yeah, Tharok really needs an appearance overhaul. The whole half man half machine look is kind of silly; especially when he has on article of clothing that somehow covers half of his body. Changes I would make to his origin is that instead of being a petty thief who got half of his body destroyed, he would be a super genius of the same level of Lex Luthor (in which he is dubbed the Luthor of the 31st Century) who invented an experimental process that will by bond his body to nanomachines. Said process will not only give him a more powerful body, but also increase his intelligence tenfold without over writting his core personality. I think a smarter Lex Luthor with a powerful tech based body is more threatening than just a super smart Metallo with a Composite Superman appearance.
  • Mano, power wise, is already dangerous seeing how he destroyed his own homeworld with said touch. Maybe instead of giving the power to recontruct matter, maybe give his disintegration powers the ability to develop projectile properties which range from long range beams of anti matter to generating a mini Black Hole that he can just "turn off" whenever he wants.
  • Emerald Empress I am a bit iffy on as I like the idea of characters subcoming to the temptation of using an artifact of doom, but I agree that its bullshit that all of the power just comes from the Eye. So here is what I would do: The Eye of Ekron will rewrite the genetics of its new owner to have superhuman strength, flight, enhance speed, and ergokinesis. These new abilities will be innate to the wielder, and retains these abilities even when the eye is not present. But when the owner is in contact with the eye, not only will it increase his/her bestowed powers but it can also give them the ability to cast strong mental commands on their victims. The Eye can only be controlled by the first person to come into contact with it after its previous owner become deceased, so the only way to control the eye is to kill the owner (which won't be easy as the Empress here has Nightmare Geese like powers). That is at least what I would do with her character.

Persuader and Validus I wouldn't change as the former is pretty much Executioner IN SPACE (so no need to make him even more badass) and the latter would defeat the purpose of the creature being easily controlled by the other villains due to his lack of mental strength..

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Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#64: Jan 3rd 2017 at 9:45:37 PM

From what I remember, the Eye was supposed to have powers similar to a Green Lantern's ring and it turned anyone who possessed it into the Emerald Empress. I dunno, I kind of like the notion that the Eye is the dominant personality and the human is just a host for it.

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
#65: Jan 3rd 2017 at 10:29:36 PM

[up] Or perhaps the Eye WANTS her to think she was in control.

. . . Yeah, I'm still working on how the whole dynamic works between Emerald Empress and the Eye. Initially I was going for something along the lines of that One Ring, except it only corrupts the first person to come into contact with it after the previous owner die.

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windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#66: Jan 3rd 2017 at 10:40:48 PM

I'd make the Eye a separate entity and keep it as the team pet.

RavenWilder Raven Wilder Since: Apr, 2009
Raven Wilder
#67: Jan 4th 2017 at 11:05:22 AM

Not quite a reinvention idea, but I'd say superhero comics in general would really benefit from preparing and releasing a universe bible regarding characters, concepts, consistent violations of physics laws etc. When you think about it, these are things we all take for granted in any other genre, including a good deal of fantasy and soft sci-fi. Sure, a strange swirly energy thing can do all sorts of damage to the Enterprise, but it's when Spock can survive without a brain that people cry foul, because unless stated otherwise in advance, it's taken for granted that he shouldn't.

The key difference there is that there have never been more than two Star Trek series running at the same time (and for most of the franchise's history, there's only been one at a time). Maintaining consistency within a single series or across two or three series is one thing. But Marvel and DC put out dozens of series simultaneously, each with their own creative teams. Trying for consistent worldbuilding in that setup is like trying to get everyone to agree on a pizza topping: it becomes exponentially more difficult the more people you add to the mix, and after a certain point it just becomes infeasible.

edited 4th Jan '17 11:06:15 AM by RavenWilder

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#68: Jan 4th 2017 at 11:34:04 AM

Hence the role-playing supplement suggestion - you basically let people choose their own toppings from a rather large predefined list, and its only new additions to that list which have to be cleared by the editors. Consider the tons of books, including comics, that are adaptations of tabletop or video games - creativity in this case doesn't mean making Zerg hydralisks into flying purple monkeys because it fits your vision better; instead, it's all about using a universal set of resources for a more consistent experience.

The trickiest thing to handle would be comicbook time, but that can be managed by having a timetable next to the aforementioned Gotham model, with major events planned in advance. Leave elseworld stories for anyone trying to be the next Alan Moore.

Robbery Since: Jul, 2012
#69: Jan 4th 2017 at 4:28:48 PM

I recall as well seeing a promotional piece DC did waaay back from the late 40s which told their official versionof how Batman was created (they did one for Superman too, and I recall Archie Comics did one for the creation of Archie). In it, it said that Bob Kane built a model of Gotham City to help plan out Batman's adventures. I'm skeptical such a thing actually existed, but it'd be cool if it did. One wonders if it had the Dick Sprang giant advertising elements....

RavenWilder Raven Wilder Since: Apr, 2009
Raven Wilder
#70: Jan 4th 2017 at 9:03:14 PM

[up][up] But the reason the Marvel and DC universes exist and the reason tie-in books exist are completely different.

With tie-in novels, the setting was created first. The assumption is that anyone picking up one of the books is already a fan of the setting, and is reading the book because they want to explore more of it. Given that, if there's a great idea for a story, but it wouldn't fit with the established wordlbuilding, then the worldbuilding has to come first, since that's the whole reason the book exists.

With the big superhero universes, it's just the opposite. The characters and story premises came first, and the idea that they exist in a Shared Universe was added in later as an excuse to have characters meet each other without relying on jumping to different universes or declaring the crossover stories non-canon. If someone picks up a Wonder Woman comic, it's because they want to read a Wonder Woman story; unless the comic in question is a Hellblazer crossover, the fact that Wonder Woman exists in the same universe as John Constantine is, at best, a garnish, not the reason for picking up the book.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#71: Jan 5th 2017 at 12:33:57 AM

That's actually a good reason to have a universal guideline - suppose you pick up a Wonder Woman book, and half of it is dedicated to discussing incidents that happened in other books, that now you have to pick up if you want the whole Wonder Woman story... only these books were by different creative teams, so her behavior and abilities barely match. Not the best sales pitch for new fans, is it? If anything, archive panic coupled with continuity snarls and character and setting inconsistency is as good a reason as any to offer your money elsewhere. Even I mostly stick to the freelance operators like Deathstroke and the Punisher, that have no obligatory ongoing series, and the rather consistent power level of using traditional firearms.

The big two have had decades and a number of total revamps to get their act together, so you can't say the next one couldn't bring some standardization to the table. And like I said, if anyone wants to pretend he's an auteur, check his sales numbers first, and if he's pulling his weight, give him an elseworld commission and call it a day. If that book is popular, then bring its changes to the mainstream. It's not rocket science.

RavenWilder Raven Wilder Since: Apr, 2009
Raven Wilder
#72: Jan 5th 2017 at 1:51:46 AM

Generally speaking, you shouldn't have chapters in a series where you need to check out a whole bunch of other series to understand what's going on. Some references are fine, as are things that you'll appreciate more if you read those other series, but each series should try to remain self-contained and not require reading anything else set in the same verse. As I said, the Shared Universe thing is a garnish, a little something extra. Unless you're dealing with a teamup book like Justice League or The Avengers, it shouldn't be essential.

That said, I do agree that there should be character guidelines that keep them consistent across different titles, but that's different from having guidelines for the universe as a whole. If a creative team has plans for a certain character that would contradict that character's established personality, history, or abilities, you could simply require that they either pick a different character to use or just create a whole new character to fulfill that role (y'know, like people working without a Shared Universe do all the time).

However, suppose one series has a storyline where someone gets a vision of the future, and no matter what they do, everything keeps leading towards that future being inevitable. But there's another series where someone gets visions of the future all the time, or even actually travels to various possible futures, and always changes what's been prophecied without too much trouble. Those stories are working off very different conceptions of time and destiny, but I don't think either series should have to sacrifice the story it's trying to tell in the name of satisfying an editorial edict concerning how the physics of their invented universe work. That's the sort of thinking that leads to, in the words of Dwayne Mc Duffie, "The last five minutes of St. Elsewhere is the only television show, ever. Everything else is a daydream."

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
indiana404 Since: May, 2013
#73: Jan 5th 2017 at 7:10:43 AM

There's that, though I think think there is some middle ground to be utilized. At the very least, even if one supernatural concept isn't exactly consistent with another in the same field, it should definitely be consistent with itself. I'm talking about forgotten superpowers, misapplied phlebotinum, and sudden shifts in the powerscale of both heroes and villains in order to fit the plot. This crap has to go.

And just for a cherry on top, I wouldn't mind a nice guide to the fantastic vehicles and gear in common use. They can be as crucial as any superpower, so having standards there is just as essential. Bat-gadgets in particular are like Schrodinger's plot solvers - they both exist and don't exist in his belt depending on the needs of the story. Is it so difficult to agree on a standard loadout, with any gizmo of the month being declared in advance or developed in the process?

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#74: Jan 5th 2017 at 7:27:05 AM

Anyone got any ideas for John Henry Irons aka Steel?

BigK1337 Comedic Super Troper from Detroit Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Hoping Senpai notices me
Comedic Super Troper
#75: Jan 5th 2017 at 6:28:00 PM

[up] Regarding changes to his character? Not much really.

I suppose before becoming Steel in tribute to the fallen Superman, John Henry Irons is among the engineers responsible for the creation of the JLA Satellite; specifically for its threat detection program which notify the team of any emergency that needs the Justice League intervention; ranging from natural disasters and metahuman attacks to alien invasions and world breaking threats.

edited 5th Jan '17 6:28:25 PM by BigK1337

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