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HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#76: May 28th 2017 at 1:33:41 PM

Yeah, Peele said his inspiration came from affluent white left-wingers during the Obama years saying we don't need to fight racism anymore because we have a black President.

So it's not a satire of outright racists but racism "enablers," I guess you could say.

Though granted Grandpa Armitage was likely an active racist.

edited 28th May '17 7:59:30 PM by HamburgerTime

Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#77: May 28th 2017 at 7:54:02 PM

I love that "He almost got over it" line. It works on so many levels.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#78: May 28th 2017 at 8:02:45 PM

Though I wonder where Grandpa did his recruiting? Dean and the grandkids were presumably indoctrinated since childhood, and Missy, I dunno, probably always evil and her marriage to Dean likely arranged to suit the Evil Plan, but there's, like, two dozen other cultists. How'd he find them? They'd have to be: old, white, rich, desiring immortality, okay with massively screwing over others to get that immortality, and creepily fond of black people in a... not-good way. That's a pretty damn narrow niche, so I wonder how Grandpa managed to bring them together? If I had to spitball a guess, maybe the Darknet?

edited 28th May '17 8:05:36 PM by HamburgerTime

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#79: May 28th 2017 at 8:06:07 PM

The video obliquely implies there's a Ancient Conspiracy of sorts at work. Grandpa Armitage at one point mentions "Our Order has been trying to perfect this process for quite some time". So it's possible Gramps Armitage was part of a much larger beast.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#80: May 28th 2017 at 8:07:06 PM

I just thought he was referring to himself there.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#81: May 28th 2017 at 8:09:20 PM

Maybe, but the wording of "Our (i.e multiple individuals) Order (a large hierarchy)" implies there's a larger organization operating, even if he was the one who created it.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#82: May 28th 2017 at 8:10:30 PM

And I thought the Order was just the rest of those creepy old farts with him as the leader, which begs the question of where he picked up the rest of them.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#83: May 28th 2017 at 8:15:26 PM

When I heard "Our Order" (rather than "My Order") my mind jumped to the idea of it being an Ancient Conspiracy of Old Money who want to live forever and possess black bodies and that's my current headcanon. As outlandish as it sounds it fits very well into the Campier aspects of the film.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#84: May 28th 2017 at 8:17:33 PM

The implication I got was that the Order was just that group, founded by Granddad because he's a petty dick that never got over Jesse Owens smoking him.

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#85: May 28th 2017 at 8:22:32 PM

That's most likely what the movie intended it to be, but the story doesn't dwell on it long enough to really clarify if that's the case. I mainly came up with this because grandpa makes a point to call it "our" (rather than just "my") order, implying he's not its head (which, granted, is very shaky ground to base a theory on). I'm sticking with my Ancient Conspiracy because I love those. The movie doesn't really lose any logic if you assume gramps armitage just joined some form of older cult after losing to Jesse Owens.

If not that, he may have found his first members in other people who lost to Jesse Owens and had similar issues as he did.

edited 28th May '17 8:23:35 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#86: Jun 11th 2017 at 3:45:38 PM

More about the original Downer Ending has been revealed. In it, Chris actually does directly kill Rose and is arrested for it, and all the evidence that could exonerate him was destroyed in the fire and, for some reason, he can't fully remember the true events of that night. Rod tries to get him to remember, but Chris accepts going to jail as penalty for killing Rose and is at least content he shut down the Armitages' operation.

Have to say I vastly prefer the theatrical cut. In particular, not fond at all of Chris actually killing Rose - it'd basically mean that the Armitages' abuse turned him into the very stereotype he was supposed to be a subversion of, the big scary black guy who goes after white women.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#87: Jun 11th 2017 at 4:02:04 PM

In a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy way, though.

It's interesting because one of the criticisms I have been hearing (Was posted on the Film Diversity thread a while back) was that the film is too lenient towards white women because Missy's death is quick and offscreen and Chris can't kill Rose, while Dean and Jeremy's deaths are much more brutal. I don't think I agree with it because Rose's death is shot to be triumphant and thematically reflective, but it's an interesting interpretation to show how much one change can alter the themes of the rest of the film.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#88: Jun 11th 2017 at 4:09:19 PM

It's a very interesting premise, and something I could feel the film was heading towards at the end. But at the same time it feels like a ten minute epilogue and leaves a lot more questions than it resolves. The current ending is a little trite and also doesn't answer every question, but that economy of storytelling is punchier.

Nithael (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#89: Jun 11th 2017 at 5:05:49 PM

I'm probably the only one, but I really prefer the alternate ending where Chris is arrested. In general I didn't like Rod's character and felt the movie would have been much more powerful if the tension wasn't constantly being put aside for some comic relief.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#90: Jun 11th 2017 at 5:15:45 PM

I just think that while Chris falling into the stereotype due to what the Armitages did to him is a decent Shakespeare-ish tragedy (Othello killing Desdemona and all that, except this time Desdemona and Iago are the same person), him still rejecting it despite what they did to him sends an even better message.

edited 11th Jun '17 5:17:02 PM by HamburgerTime

SalFishFin Since: Jan, 2001
#91: Jun 11th 2017 at 5:22:47 PM

Honestly, most of the "comic relief" was only funny in an ironic "I'm only laughing because I'm understand how uncomfortable this is" kind of way. It's part of the pseudo-horror of the story.

Nithael (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#92: Jun 11th 2017 at 6:26:37 PM

Eh, I have to disagree that scenes like "I'm T.S... motherfuckin'-A. We handle shit. That's what we do. Consider this situation... fuckin' handled." are not pure comedy. Or "sex slaves n shit", "…probably just wanted to suck a little dick, jiggle some balls…"

Pseudopartition Screaming Into The Void from The Cretaeceous Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
Screaming Into The Void
#93: Jun 13th 2017 at 7:19:48 PM

Just saw this today (yeah, it's still playing here, it did that well), and I think the humor works. There could have been a little less of it, sure, but in general I think having some humor makes scary or heartbreaking scenes hit even harder. You can't go 100% on a depressing or horrifying tone all of the time, it just exhausts the audience.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#94: Jun 13th 2017 at 9:20:21 PM

So this may just have been me, but did anyone think while first watching the movie that Jeremy would be a Token Good Teammate or at least a Guilt-Ridden Accomplice? I felt like he seemed so obviously creepy and sinister there just had to be a twist. Specifically, it's mentioned he's a drunkard, so I thought it was going to turn out that he drank to drown his sorrows over the things his family made him do, and that's why he acts so weird. But I guess sometimes a creepazoid's just a creepazoid.

edited 13th Jun '17 9:21:43 PM by HamburgerTime

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#95: Jun 13th 2017 at 9:29:04 PM

I did consider that at first when I saw he had obvious drinking problems, but those feelings mostly went away when I saw his speech about genes.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
washington213 Since: Jan, 2013
#96: Jul 5th 2017 at 9:05:38 PM

Just rented it from Redbox. Thought it was great.

Regarding sparing Rose and being too nice to the white girls, eh, I disagree. Missy got a quick death, but arguably Rose had the worst death. While she doesn't get strangled, she is left to bleed out on the country road. And being the last one to die, she knows all her family is dead.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#97: Jul 19th 2017 at 5:00:38 PM

Think this will get any Oscar love? Horror movies are notorious for being neglected there...

Prowler I'm here for our date, Rose! Since: Dec, 2010 Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
I'm here for our date, Rose!
#98: Jul 19th 2017 at 5:21:04 PM

[up] No.

But at least popular opinion knows better.

edited 19th Jul '17 5:21:27 PM by Prowler

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#99: Jul 19th 2017 at 6:01:57 PM

Jordan Peele was recently invited as an Academy member, so I can see a nomination being possible, but winning is another unpredictable matter.

LDragon2 Since: Dec, 2011
#100: Jul 21st 2017 at 2:05:23 AM

Considering that this film is a critique of the left, I wonder if the Academy will even consider it.

edited 21st Jul '17 2:05:38 AM by LDragon2


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