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LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#151: Oct 24th 2016 at 12:32:31 PM

It makes sense for Ray's character. Even assuming he didn't dismiss the idea of them being able to break free out of hand, when Emma and Norman were insistent on taking everyone else with them, is probably when he made his move.

Edited by LSBK on Jan 10th 2019 at 9:29:55 AM

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#152: Oct 24th 2016 at 12:41:44 PM

[up] Yeah, Emma wanted to save the kids because she's a good person, Norman agreed because he loves Emma, but Ray never had a reason for wanting to risk his life. Plus, since he's a 300 student like Isabella and Krone he actually has a chance of becoming a caretaker. Heck, I could see finding out the truth about the farms and being willing to sacrifice the other kids as the first test to get selected as a Mama/Papa.

Does anyone actually read these?
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#153: Oct 24th 2016 at 12:49:20 PM

Awww man I like Ray. Please don't be the traitor dude. sad

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#154: Oct 24th 2016 at 12:57:34 PM

…Still, why do I find Norman increasingly creepy in his expressions? I don't know, there's something… unsettling about him. Something that seems to whisper "yandereee…"

He knows that Emma won't let Ray die even if he's the traitor, but does he intend to save him? I'm not so sure…

edited 24th Oct '16 1:16:40 PM by Lyendith

OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#155: Oct 24th 2016 at 1:14:28 PM

Ray was willing to escape if it was just the three of them. He thought that was possible, trying to save everyone which is too impractical is the dealbreaker most likely.

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#156: Oct 24th 2016 at 4:21:30 PM

I was suspicious from the start, really. The moment they started talking about there being a spy, I knew it had to be him. Because why give them a 50% chance of guessing it right when you can give them 0?

Classic shell con.

edited 24th Oct '16 4:24:25 PM by blkwhtrbbt

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
ZeroSennin Since: Jul, 2009
#158: Oct 24th 2016 at 5:26:57 PM

I was honestly hoping that Ray wasn't going to be the one. Still holding out hope that this is a double blind or something, but probably not.

Also, if anyone wants to contribute, a trope page and a character page are both up.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#159: Oct 24th 2016 at 5:37:24 PM

We can stop with the spoilers now.

Anyway, assuming Ray really is just the spy, and that's probably true, I'm having a hard time imagining where we go from here.

Isabella already knows who the ones who know are, so I'm not sure it really matters now. Also, her apparently (continuing) grooming Emma for the role of "Mama" is interesting.

Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#160: Oct 25th 2016 at 12:11:23 AM

And I also don't think we need to hide First Episode Spoilers in the trope page. surprised

sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#161: Oct 25th 2016 at 6:46:31 AM

[up]I think that was me. I added the trope in the first place as a crosswick and because someone had spoiler tagged references to the orphanage being a farm. IIRC I only spoiler tagged how they find out (finding Conny) because I tend to think even if a general thing isn't a spoiler, the details of it can be.

So yeah, anyone who starts the series now probably knows what it is going in, but possibly not the how. In hindsight, though, in realizing that Conny is mentioned as a victim right in the description so in this case maybe my thinking is off...

edited 25th Oct '16 6:46:46 AM by sgamer82

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#162: Oct 26th 2016 at 4:57:30 AM

Wut? Okay, this sounds like the sort of last panel twist that goes nowhere next chapter.

LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#163: Oct 26th 2016 at 7:42:18 AM

Maybe, but that would be pretty stupid. I'm actually very curious to see how they proceed without him.

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#164: Oct 26th 2016 at 9:15:59 AM

Ray's a bit superflous to their needs. He's stated to be more knowledgeable than Norm, but for all we know that's because he's on the inside. His information could be tainted with Feed the Mole or worse.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
ashnazg Since: Dec, 2009
#165: Oct 26th 2016 at 9:37:35 AM

[up][up][up]Yeah, it sort of felt to me like that would be the case. I hope that won't happen though, because this is certainly an interesting twist to the apparent Power Trio setup at the start.

Norman's words to Ray and Emma do set up the possibility of some kind of redemption plot, at least. (Or maybe the twist is that Norman is the spy, though we've already had one scene showing the stress he's under when not having to put up a front for others.)

edited 26th Oct '16 9:37:59 AM by ashnazg

blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#166: Oct 26th 2016 at 9:41:13 AM

I think this was foreshadowed. If they had been going for a power trio, Ray would have been there to witness things too.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#167: Oct 26th 2016 at 9:45:39 AM

[up] That was more or less my own thought at the time. There has to be a reason he was left out.

IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#168: Oct 26th 2016 at 10:07:15 AM

Yeah, it was also pretty suspicious how we get to see Norman and Emma's thoughts constantly but almost never get Ray's point of view.

Does anyone actually read these?
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#169: Oct 26th 2016 at 10:09:58 AM

[up]x5 That's not how things work as we've seen. Even the Mamas had to train themselves and learn just like the other kids at these places. The only difference is that they know the truth of the world. So Ray being a tad smarter than Norman is simply because he's smart.

We did get his thoughts before and the only implications we get that he'd have been a mole is due to Emma wanting to save everyone despite how impractical that would be.

edited 26th Oct '16 10:10:18 AM by OmegaRadiance

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#170: Oct 26th 2016 at 10:12:10 AM

At least due to Emma wanting to save everyone Ray may not be left behind. I wonder how he's gonna react to Norman's accusation.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#171: Oct 26th 2016 at 10:13:01 AM

I'm not saying Ray isn't smart, I'm saying that I don't think he would contribute anything Norm couldn't. I think it's safe for the writer to make him an antagonist without the team really losing anything.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#172: Oct 26th 2016 at 10:18:43 AM

Norman mentions he's good with machines, which they likely will need depending on how the outside world is like. We know the demons take their shipments in vehicles.

edited 26th Oct '16 10:19:45 AM by OmegaRadiance

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
LSBK Since: Sep, 2014
#173: Oct 31st 2016 at 10:50:25 AM

Chapter's out.

That went unexpectedly but I figured it wouldn't just be the end of things with him. I wonder what his answer to that last question is.

Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers from Far Far Away (On A Trope Odyssey) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
#174: Oct 31st 2016 at 11:14:26 AM

So Ray is actually a double agent?

Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#175: Oct 31st 2016 at 11:19:00 AM

Indeed, it's handled quite interestingly… For a kid his age to accept such a truth and to actively help their captors for presumably several years, the reason probably goes beyond "I'm just a sociopath". Though he might be a bit of a sociopath.

edited 31st Oct '16 11:21:19 AM by Lyendith


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