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Ambar Sonof Deshar
I'd argue that a new reader could easily jump into a book and what to see where it's going, as long as it firmly establishes where it's been. The way to get someone really invested in a book thats been running for a while is to make them think "Wow! I wonder how things got to this point in the story?" and then go pick up the previous trades. When the book references past events and builds up characterization, this is easily done.
Now, as you've already mentioned, what's to stop the continuity from getting confusing and out of whack again? The solution isn't that complicated: keep it simple. Don't have a half dozen different books set in the same "Ultimate Universe", just have 1 (maybe 2, but start with 1). Then there is only so much continuity that a new reader needs to know. If you keep everything in a nice, organized formate that is well collected in tpbs, then any new reader should be able to go back and read all the old issues with little trouble.
Trades are the way most people read comic these days, so I'm not too concerned with whether or not somebody gets everything that is going in the book just from picking upon issue 157 at random, so long as they get interested in it, and know just enough from reading the issue to wonder what got the characters to that point and seek out the trades to find out how.
I made this thread to get people involved in making an improved Ultimate Universe and i come back to people arguing about rape and trying to say i wanted to just bring back the old Ultimate Universe... The fuck happened?!
Anyway, I liked the Ultimate Universe but it had a lot of flaws, it was by no means perfect. My biggest problem with it was they had an amazing opportunity to do cool things that they squandered. I think it could have been done better so i want to see how we can do at it.
That was a Flame Bait, and I fell for it. But it's over, so Let Us Never Speak of This Again. My proposal was at the post #60. Instead of reinventing the wheel, we can simply undo that thing that several fans do not like (not my case, but who doesn't like some great crossover event?), and go in some other direction.
Okay just got into this discussion, surprise that most of it is an arguement over whether or not the characterization of the heroes are good (spoilers: only in Ultimate Spider-Man and Fantastic Four). But now that we are getting back on track, hereís my critique on Grigorll suggestion of pulling an Infinite Crisis on the Ultimate Universe.
So yeah those are my improvements on your suggestion. Personaliy I would of just make a whole new universe; which is actually what I am working on along with a new DC Universe:
I don't think that Comic-Book Time is much of a real problem: yes, it is weird if you stop to think about it, but then again, it's a problem of all the superhero genre. And yes, remaining tied to old events may be a problem, but not really that much. The Cold War ended 28 years ago, there's at least two generations who never heard about it other than as past history, so you would think that Watchmen should be a forgotten and obsolete comic... and yet, here we are.
And there is a problem with starting a new ultimate universe from scratch: many of the complaints can be simplified as "They Changed It, Now It Sucks!". It may be argued that the problem was a certain and specific change, but how can you be sure that an equally reimagined version of a known character would not suffer the same problem? And if you stay too close to the original and only make cosmetic changes, how can you prevent the "It's the Same, Now It Sucks!" complaints? Simple answer: don't reinvent the wheel, stick to something that works, and just use the common tricks of the market to improve things.
As for the proposals, yes, of course that Magneto is a monster and deserves to die. I'm not proposing that the X-Men plea for his life because I endorse him, but because it's the reaction that would better fit the character definition of Charles Xavier, who is always willing to propose the redemption and second chances path (even with Ultimate Magneto). Of course, all the others would give him several "What the Hell, Hero?", and ultimately prevail. Thing is, what made the Ultimates so great in the begining was not just that the were alternate-universe Avengers (at that point, before the film and the MCU, the Avengers were not the juggernaut franchise they are nowadays), but how they dealed with underlying conflicts where Both Sides Have a Point. What to do with Magneto sounds like a conflict where both sides can give well-reasoned explanations, and go back to the roots.
edited 28th Nov '17 7:30:02 AM by GrigorII
Okay, here are some things I have to disagree on
1) My complaint wasn't regarding Comic Book Timeline in the Ultimate Universe, but the fact that said universe couldn't decide what year said comics takes place. Basically, the Universe insisted that the events all happen on a specific year (somewhere in the early 2000s) and it all happened within a month with no Comic Book Timeline incorporated. Ultimate Spider-Man, supposedly started somewhere around 2000 and 2001 which means everything supposedly happened from that year up to 2002. But as later comics in the line come, they make tones of references to things that are current to the release of the comic which contradicts the chronological year the comic is supposed to takes place in. This actually ruins the immersion of reading said books as, unlike the main universe, it does not run on Comic Book Time (like Watchmen which you referenced) and its meant to be close to our reality as possible.
I'm okay with comics set in a specific time period. What I am not okay with is it putting in tech, events and references that shouldn't exists in said time period (like when Wasp mentions the Spongebob Movie which was out in 2004).
2) This quote you made:
3) Okay then, I understand. So why not focus on the characters reaction after Magneto dies rather than making a drag out story arc focusing on trial itself. I think the characters hearing Professor Xavier talk shit about Magneto after his death will be a better way of highlighting his hypocrisy as he basically openly admits it after Magneto is dead and won't be able to here. Plus the controversy the Ultimates will face after Mags death will set up its overarching plot involving the team dealing with negative publicity from the public in becoming this Military Police force that enforces peace by killing anybody that opposes them.
4) Nah him leading a team with other child soldiers is actually a good idea to explore. I mean whose to say Peter was the only teenage meta human Fury convertly recruit for his super human hit squad?
5) Have you not read my comment regarding the Ultimate Conqueror event? If its anything like the previous Ultimate Comics events (Ultimate Galactus Trilogy, Ultimate Power, Ultimatum) the story line will be a crisis story involving ALL the characters in the Ultimate Universe. So of course Reed will encounter Maker; just a version of him who took refuge in the far future and became this universe equivalent to Kang the Conqueror.
Well, there would be a very good way to combine both premises about Magneto. Nick Fury informs Xavier and the X-Men that Magneto will be executed for crimes against humanity, Xavier gives a Big "NO!" and say that it is wrong, Wolverine agrees with Fury that he must be killed, they start a debate, and Xavier gives a long speech explaining his reasons to think that Magneto should be pardoned and get a second chance. Nick Fury, who stayed silent the whole time, finally says "Have you finished? Because we have executed him 20 minutes ago".
As for Ultimate Conqueror, the idea is great, but sounds a bit too similar to the Maker arc in Ultimate Comics: Ultimates (in fact, when I first read it I thought that it was a pragmatic adaption of Kang, before they went ahead and actually used Kang). We would need to work on how exactly does Reed pretend to conquer the 21 century, and make it different. No future city, and no destruction of Washington DC.
Actually, Ultimate Conqueror is meant to be an Ultimates remake of the Kurt Busiek Avengers storyline The Kang Dynasty which saw the time travelling villain takeover the 20th Century and defeat the Avengers in a full scale war. Said storyline was loosely adapted in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes. And since this is an alternate continuity from the original Ultimates Comics and knowing Kang's history with alternate versions of himself (see Celestial Madona and Avengers Forever) it is possible for Kang to be a future version of Reed from the 41st Century who amass his own utopian empire and went back in time to rule the 21st.
So yeah, not going to make any promises on him not destroying Washington DC (as well as other countries) which would eventually lead to the world making an unconditional surrender to him.
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