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DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 17th 2016 at 5:16:11 PM

With the ending of the Ultimate Universe and with the All-New All-Different Marvel Universe happening now i think this is an opportunity to start fresh with another Ultimate Universe. Set in modern day with the Superhero Boom happening around 2010 - 2016, around that time. We will most likely incorporate elements of the old Ultimate Universe, Earth-616 and possibly even the MCU but i'd like alot of it to come from our own ideas. Some possible ideas to start us off:

  • Logan and Mystique are some of the first Mutants, Possibly brother and sister? Their parents thought they were monsters but Logan defended them using his claws. They fled, eventually seperating. Some time in modern day Logan loses his memories.
  • Gwen Stacy develops Spider powers after a blood transfusion from Peter Parker (Spider-Gwen is amazing, had to put her in here somewhere)
  • I'd prefer characters not be as dickish as in the original Ultimate Universe.
  • The way Captain America was in the Ultimate Universe wasn't terrible but i think it could have been a bit better, Have him still have some WWII era beliefs but he slowly grows and improves.

edited 19th Jul '16 9:19:55 PM by DrZadkiel

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
RavenWilder Raven Wilder
Raven Wilder
Jul 17th 2016 at 6:08:39 PM

How about this:

Mutants first became widespread enough to catch the public's attention in The '60s, with Magneto and Charles Xavier being the two most well-known mutant figures. The anti-mutant backlash was so severe that a full-on genocide occurred, with all known mutants being rounded up and killed. In the present day, this is mostly looked back on with great shame, as many other historic tragedies are, but isn't seen as very relevant to modern times as mutants seem to be extinct. In actuality, Xavier (so disturbed by what happened the last time mutants went public) has been using his psychic abilities to track down mutants and mind-control them into not using their powers, or (if they're blatantly non-human looking) taking them away to live in a secret underground society (becoming the Morlocks). But Xavier is old now, and his mind isn't what it once was (he might even be dying), so he creates the X-Men to carry on his work of keeping mutants a secret from the world that hates and fears them, something the various X-Men are conflicted about, especially as The Masquerade starts to crumble without an ultra-powerful psychic to patch up the cracks.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 17th 2016 at 6:12:35 PM

[up]Where does Erik fit into this? How did the split happen or did they even know eachother in the first place?

edited 17th Jul '16 6:13:05 PM by DrZadkiel

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
Jul 17th 2016 at 6:34:13 PM

[up][up] At first glance? That comes off as an idea that will have disturbingly high likelihood of sending this N Ultimate Marvelverse down the same dark path that wrecked the original.

RavenWilder Raven Wilder
Raven Wilder
Jul 17th 2016 at 8:23:17 PM

[up][up] Erik would be referenced as an old friend-turned-enemy of Xavier's who engaged in mutant supremacy terrorism, but what happened to him would be left vague so that there would be plenty of room for him to eventually have some sort of grand reappearance.

[up] Well, the idea of a mutant genocide is pretty much always floating around in the X-Men titles. My thinking is that, if you have the genocide occur not in the present or an ominously glimpsed future, but decades in the past, then you can still do stories about mutants being rounded up and killed by the government via flashbacks, while letting the present day X-Men (and the society they live in) be far enough removed from those events that the notion of mutant co-existence doesn't seem so pie-in-the-sky. It would also create some good potential for conflict among the X-Men about whether they should be keeping themselves hidden and seperate from the rest of humanity or trying to genuinely integrate with them.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 18th 2016 at 12:22:51 AM

[up] I'm not sure about having Charles brainwashing people. Forcing Mutants to never use their powers or make them live underground doesn't seem like something he'd do.

edited 18th Jul '16 12:41:19 AM by DrZadkiel

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
Tiamatty X-Men X-Pert from Now on Twitter Relationship Status: Brony
Jul 18th 2016 at 1:37:39 AM

[up] Honestly? When you read the '60s comics? It actually kinda feels exactly like something he'd do. '60s Xavier was an immense asshole with an obsession for secrecy and a pretty clear preference for mutants who could easily hide their mutations. '60s Xavier is why I dislike Xavier as a character.

X-Men X-Pert, my blog where I talk about X-Men comics.
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 18th 2016 at 1:50:24 AM

[up] Which is why i prefer the more modern version. I think he should be a caring leader, not like he was in the original Ultimate Universe or in the '60s.

edited 18th Jul '16 1:51:01 AM by DrZadkiel

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 18th 2016 at 1:23:10 PM

How should we handle the Mutants? I don't think anyone liked them being a government experiment that failed.

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
VampireBuddha Hungry dinosaur from Ireland Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Hungry dinosaur
Jul 18th 2016 at 3:18:08 PM

Logan and Mystique are... brother and sister.

No

Gwen Stacy develops Spider powers

All of the yes.


For mutants, I like the idea we worked out in the Marvel/DC merged universe thread.

First of all, mutant is one of those terms like theory that's used differently by scientists and lay people. Scientists use it for any organism whose DNA alters in some way. To a lay person, it refers to a subset of humanity with drastic mutations. The lay definition is imprecise, and is commonly used as a slur toward anyone who even looks a little different.

The whole metaphor would work better if mutants were portrayed like they are in Judge Dredd or Strontium Dog. The majority of mutants have no superpowers, but look freaky - for example, they might be covered in purple hair, or have horns all over their body, hands and feet in swapped positions. Thus we avoid the whole problem of mutants looking like attractive non-mutants but secretly being able to control the weather or shoot lasers from their eyes (though those types would also exist). Morlock in this continuity is a slang term for an especially bizarre-looking mutant, but N-Word Privileges are in place - morlocks can call each other morlocks, but it's a bad idea for a non-mutant to do so.

Rather than hiding out in the sewers, Callisto is a prominent mutant rights activist who operates above ground. She condemns Magneto as a terrorist, but she also has little time for Xavier, seeing him as a shady figure who sits in his ivory tower recruiting underwear models with magic powers.

Due to most mutants looking weird, the wider mutant community might look down on the majority of the X-Men, viewing them as "not real mutants" (since they look like non-mutant humans) who aren't concerned with the issues mutants face every day. This disdain would carry through to those mutants who can hide their mutations with strategic clothing; as such, there is a fashion among mutants to get lots of piercings, tattoos, scarification, implants, and other body modifications to look as bizarre as possible. Coupled with this, there is a trend toward adopting a new name reflective of one's own mutation, which is why John Allerdyce is known as Pyro.

Attitudes toward mutants vary greatly; some people don't care about mutations, some think that pro-mutant affirmative action is reasonable, some are sympathetic but don't like the things done in the name of the #MutantLivesMatter movement, and Donald Trump wants to expel them from America. Mutants, too, display a variety of attitudes - some think they have equality and the issues Callisto and Xavier raise are unwarranted, some agree with the mutant rights movement but keep their heads down and don't make a fuss, some try to improve matters, and some outright support Magneto.

edited 18th Jul '16 3:18:28 PM by VampireBuddha

DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 18th 2016 at 3:42:18 PM

[up]I got the Logan and Mystique thing from something i read and i thought it was a cool idea, If others don't like it that's fine.

I'm guessing the X-Men are formed some time in The '60s? Or are they formed in modern day?

edited 19th Jul '16 2:52:09 AM by DrZadkiel

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
Jul 19th 2016 at 10:42:27 PM

The Ultimates was always a really stupid name, The Avengers is better

Jul 20th 2016 at 9:59:25 AM

@Vampire Buddha- I haven't read them, but what you're describing sounds a lot like the premise of Wild Cards- where the mutation killed a huge number of people, and for those it didn't kill, and of the subsection of people who survive, you have a lot of people who are disfigured and/or changed in a deleterious way (although some of these people get helpful powers), and a smaller subsection of people whose appearance is unchanged and get cool powers or at least powers not harmful to themselves.

It's actually a fair amount like what is done with Inhumans- like just within Ms. Marvel (2014) 's purview, you have Kamala, her brother, and Kamran, who don't look any different than before (except perhaps as a function of using their powers), some random Inhumans who look sort of demonic now but have no other powers, and Lineage, who also has the demon-look, but got cool powers with it. He's kind of a weird example because he was short, fat, and elderly before getting his powers, and after getting them, is tall and in good health (but looks like Satan).

edited 20th Jul '16 10:13:10 AM by Hodor2

Supporting the right to arm bears
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 21st 2016 at 1:50:36 PM

So since we've kinda done Mutants, How should the Fantastic Four be done? Apparently it's hard to redo those guys so we want to make sure it's good.

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 31st 2016 at 1:58:47 AM

edited 31st Jul '16 11:32:55 AM by DrZadkiel

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
Aug 21st 2016 at 10:57:50 AM

Maybe we could merge the origins of the FF, like they go into space but a wormhole sends them to the N-Zone? Doom should definitely still be magic though

Aug 21st 2016 at 12:10:37 PM

That would be a good idea. Was also thinking of a Meta Origin that is more magic based and is inspired by the way magic works in The First Law. It isn't really explored after the initial trilogy, since the series ended up way more low fantasy, but the idea seems to be that there's his very cold Hell dimension called The Other Side and magic comes from tapping into there- and the problem is that if you tap too much, you'll allow things from The Other Side come into our dimension.

So, I could definitely see a story wherein Reed and co. are interested in "scientifically" tapping into another dimension whereas Doom is interested based on some occult texts he's come across(compare with the Aether in the MCU). Reed and co. get transformed whereas Doom is filled with magical powers (and maybe badly burned; maybe not).

edited 21st Aug '16 12:11:38 PM by Hodor2

Supporting the right to arm bears
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Nov 9th 2016 at 6:21:10 PM

Bump

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Dec 6th 2016 at 9:19:25 AM

A possible way to update Magneto's origin would be to place him into the Bosnian Genocide. Maybe at the Omarska Camp?

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
DrZadkiel Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
Jul 29th 2017 at 3:22:56 PM

Bump

Fuck you i do what i want! ~ Dr. Zadkiel
Oct 7th 2017 at 9:48:46 AM

Ultimate Marvel is composed by the ultimate comic book publications. It was perfect as it was. I wouldn't change anything about it. Just let the Maker recreate that universe, and continue from where we left it.

Ultimate Marvel: the best comics of all time
Oct 12th 2017 at 7:24:50 AM

[up]That's a joke right? Because any project that makes Wolverine in an ephebophilic rapist was about as far from perfect as you can get.

Oct 12th 2017 at 9:39:12 AM

Wolverine is not, or at least is not meant to be, a "nice" character. When he was first created, Wolverine was meant to be a shocking and hideous character, someone that the readers find repulsive and puts them out of the confort zone. Three decades later, after his style became the norm of a whole genre, you would need to raise the stakes to achieve the same effect. Ultimate Marvel managed to do it.

And, in any case, didn't the mainstream Wolverine had a relation with Squirrel Girl once? She even apears in his psychic sexual fantasies. *sigh*

edited 12th Oct '17 9:48:05 AM by GrigorII

Ultimate Marvel: the best comics of all time
Oct 12th 2017 at 12:30:15 PM

...So you're advocating for Wolverine, raper-of-teenage-girls. Gotcha. And presumably for Giant-Man, wife-beater, Captain America, jingoist loon, etc, etc, given the claim the Ultimate Universe was "perfect as is".

Oct 12th 2017 at 2:53:11 PM

Actually, Jean Grey consented, and her actual age (if she's a minor or not) is not mentioned. She is young and he's an adult, so it's a Mayfly–December Romance. A rape? That just a popular Alternative Character Interpretation, but no more than that.

No, I do not support Pym's domestic abuse... and neither do the comics. He does not get away with it, he gets called on it, he faces consequences, beatings and humilliations for it. So yeah, the comic book features domestic abuse, but does not glorify it. Quite the contrary.

And Captain America is not jingoist. See the end of Ultimates vol. 2. So far he standed for My Country, Right or Wrong, but when forced to face how aggresive the foreign policy of the US was (the very goal of any jingoist), he said no, and the Ultimates ceased taking orders from SHIELD. Oh, was it for that comment about the A that does not stand for "France", when a nazi alien told him to surrender? Well, perhaps I'm not being politically correct by pointing this, but the historical fact is that France did surrender to the nazis, with the armistice of June 22, 1940.

edited 12th Oct '17 2:53:48 PM by GrigorII

Ultimate Marvel: the best comics of all time

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