TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Broken Base Cleanup

Go To

Consensus has arrived at four criteria for Broken Base:

  • A sustained conflict: short-term conflicts that are quickly forgotten don't count.
    • Corollary: Conflicts about upcoming works based on previews, trailers, and speculation are short-term by definition and should be cut on sight.
  • An exceptionally vicious conflict: a simple disagreement where the various factions have little problem co-existing doesn't count.
  • Two or more large, vocal, and entrenched factions within the fanbase: a tiny Vocal Minority that won't shut up about their pet peeve but is vastly outnumbered by more reasonable fans doesn't count. Nor does a silent majority that likes what they like (or hates what they hate) but doesn't make a big deal about it.
    • Corollary: the fanbase must itself be large enough to support two or more large and entrenched factions. This is more likely to be the case with broad fandoms (e.g. "Star Wars fans" or "anime fans") as opposed to narrow ones (fans of one particular work such as a single film or video game with no sequels, adaptations, or spinoffs).
  • Little to no middle ground: Cases in which the vast majority of the fandom just plain doesn't care too much about the disagreements of a few fringe elements don't count.

    Original first post 
Edit: Thread consensus has arrived at four criteria for Broken Base, which I will copy-paste here so that they're always easily visible in the first post:

  • A sustained conflict: short-term conflicts that are quickly forgotten don't count.
    • Corollary: Conflicts about upcoming works based on previews, trailers, and speculation are short-term by definition and should be cut on sight.
  • An exceptionally vicious conflict: a simple disagreement where the various factions have little problem co-existing doesn't count.
  • Two or more large, vocal, and entrenched factions within the fanbase: a tiny Vocal Minority that won't shut up about their pet peeve but is vastly outnumbered by more reasonable fans doesn't count. Nor does a silent majority that likes what they like (or hates what they hate) but doesn't make a big deal about it.
    • Corollary: the fanbase must itself be large enough to support two or more large and entrenched factions. This is more likely to be the case with broad fandoms (e.g. "Star Wars fans" or "anime fans") as opposed to narrow ones (fans of one particular work such as a single film or video game with no sequels, adaptations, or spinoffs).
  • Little to no middle ground: Cases in which the vast majority of the fandom just plain doesn't care too much about the disagreements of a few fringe elements don't count.

Broken Base is ostensibly about deep-seated arguments within a fanbase. Okay, fine. That's a thing that happens. The problem is that many entries are written in such a way as to side firmly with one side over the other, to the point where it's a thinly-veiled excuse for complaining. They tend to spend the majority of space laying out one side's argument for why a particular entry or element in a franchise is the Worst Thing Ever(TM), and then wrap up saying something like, "...but there are some people who like it."

Example: In YMMV.Mass Effect 2:

* Broken Base: This game is either the best of the entire series filled with tons of interesting character stories and an awesome main plot or it's a massive filler Idiot Plot rife with plot holes, a horribly done Unexplained Recovery, limited RPG elements and many unnecessary retcons and changes to the lore of the series. There's not a whole lot of in-between for fans, though it's worth noting that this criticism mostly came as the years went by, during the time of it's release it was , it was covered in high ratings.

That's... just plain not the case. Broad consensus is that ME2 is the high point of the series. There are certainly folks who prefer ME1, some vociferously, but it's only a very vocal minority who tear into 2 the way the writer of this entry does.

(Mod edited to streamline, previous text in folder)

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 19th 2025 at 9:31:48 AM

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#1876: Sep 4th 2022 at 11:00:33 PM

[up]I'm unsure since I'm not familiar with the community, though I did try revising some things that come off as complaining to me.

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#1877: Sep 17th 2022 at 9:51:14 PM

Found this on YMMV.Delicious In Dungeon:

  • Broken Base: Over whether the scanlations or the official English translation makes for the better reading experience. Fans of the former complain that the official release is overly literal with stiff and awkward dialogue, and changed spelling of the cast's names from what they are used to with the scanlations. Fans of the latter disagree and accuse scanlation fans of just wanting to keep getting the series for free instead of buying it and supporting the creator properly. Then there's the third group who don't care either way and are happy to read both.

First of all, I'm pretty sure that this applies to every manga with multiple translations. And second, are we supposed to trope reactions to the scanlations, which are technically unofficial material?

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1878: Sep 18th 2022 at 1:10:47 AM

I think it should stay if there really is a broken base.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#1879: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:50:13 AM

I just don't think we should document reactions to the scanlation specifically, since those aren't officially-made (and technically illegal).

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#1880: Sep 18th 2022 at 8:52:55 AM

I'm not sure, we document fan fiction, and that's not official either.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
captainpat Since: Sep, 2010
#1881: Sep 18th 2022 at 9:25:32 AM

[up]x4

I'd have to check but I highly doubt this would be an issue that's actually splitting the fanbase of that series especially since the entry mentions a third group that doesn't care. So it's probably not actually that divisive.

Edited by captainpat on Sep 18th 2022 at 9:34:14 AM

Zuxtron Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel from Node 03 (On A Trope Odyssey)
#1882: Sep 18th 2022 at 10:46:17 AM

[up][up] We document fan works on their own pages, not on the page of the work they're based on. Since a scanlation usually doesn't get a page of its own, it shouldn't be troped.

Oshawott337 Since: Jul, 2020 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
#1883: Sep 19th 2022 at 1:35:19 PM

From YMMV.Brooklyn Nine Nine:

  • Season 8 proved to be highly divisive, particularly in regards to the show's handling of the conversations regarding police brutality and race relations following the George Floyd protests. One group felt the show did a respectable job of addressing the issues while still providing great humor. Others felt that show's efforts came across as an Anvilicious Author Tract where the writers and cast prioritized voicing their personal views on the issues at the expense of established characterization, particularly in the cases of Jake, Rosa, and Charles. A third camp feels that the show didn't do enough to address the issues and felt the show's efforts came across as hypocritical due to the main characters still being portrayed in an overall positive and humorous light.
  • imdb falls hard into the second camp; The Good Ones is the show's lowest rated episode at 4.9 out of ten note , with 192 of the episodes 351 reviews being one star and even the higher ranked reviews are still negative, the most common complaints being:
    • The show being extremely heavy-handed and clunky in delivering the message, to the point where it feels like the show's message of "Police brutality is bad, mkay?" is ironically being used to beat the viewer over the head, with other viewers pointing out that the Moo Moo episode did a far better and more competent job covering relatively the same topics.
    • People tuning into Brooklyn 99 to escape the news reports on George Floyd and the Black Lives Matter movement only to be greeted with more of the same, only in a more mean-spirited "The world sucks and life isn't fair" way.
    • Rosa quitting the force and discarding her and Jake's relationship as if it was a piece of trash, plus her quitting only just now because of the George Floyd-BLM issues giving unintended implications of Rosa being okay with the NYPD's prior acts of police brutality.
    • People being sick and tired of TV shows pushing political agendas with some reviewers swearing off of watching the rest of season 8.
    • International viewers who likely aren't concerned with the topic suddenly being treated to a 25-minute info-dump on topics they don't care about and/or are sick of hearing about.

Okay, so this is just natter and tons of complaining. Can I chainsaw everything past the first bit?

"Let’s see who’s stronger: someone that has something to protect, or someone that has nothing to lose."
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#1885: Oct 27th 2022 at 4:03:53 AM

YMMV.Return To Monkey Island keeps having Broken Base added about the ending even though the game only came out a month ago. I had deleted a ZCE version already and cited the 6-month wait in the edit reason, but it was recently added again with actual context. I think adding a commented-out notifier on the page would work, but I'm unsure if that would be an edit war or not.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Oct 27th 2022 at 7:06:39 AM

The Protomen enhanced my life.
MisterApes-a-lot Since: Mar, 2018
#1886: Oct 27th 2022 at 10:47:21 AM

I believe you're allowed to remove it again if a thread gives you permission to do so. I'm on board with removing the entry and adding a commented-out note.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#1887: Oct 27th 2022 at 7:29:35 PM

[up][up]I'd re-remove it and leave a commented-out warning saying not to re-add it until the waiting period is over with.

indigoJay from The Astral Plane Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1888: Nov 21st 2022 at 3:01:38 PM

From Mortal Kombat 11:

  • Broken Base
    • The characterizations of certain characters, especially on those that weren't iconic enough to the franchise in general. Most of them tend to be touching the current society climate within USA, thus making the writers believe Sindel needs to be retconned to be a Gold Digger Hate Sink to be linked with 'evil privileged white women', whereas Sheeva's dialogues are made to be hyperfeminist, racist and misogynist, sounding like a Karen which was getting a rise during the DLC's release. And that's not getting into the original parts where aside of the Tamer and Chaster concerns, we also have Shao Kahn quoting Donald Trump ("Make Outworld great again") or Jax focusing to remove black slavery for 'woke' in his Arcade Ladder ending. Overall this pandering to the society at the time that affected the characterization and narrative was either considered of bad taste and disrespectful to the characters or considered just harmless, with some even liking the new direction.

The phrasing of this entry seems off. I haven't played through all of the story sections of the game, but claiming that the "society climate within USA" pushed the writers to retcon Sindel as a "Gold Digger Hate Sink to be linked with 'evil privileged white women'" seems like a stretch at best and an outright misrepresentation at worst. The claim that Sheeva's dialogues are "hyperfeminist" and "sounding like a Karen" also sets off alarms.

I'm also not sure that it meets the "little-to-no middle ground" criteria. The entry itself claims that many people considered the direction "just harmless."

With that said, I'm not super familiar with the online fanbase, and I have no idea if this specific sentiment was super common when the game was released. I also know that the standard for removing/completely rewriting reaction-based entries are higher. Is this entry below standard?

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1889: Nov 21st 2022 at 3:09:18 PM

That is absolutely below standard. We don't (normally? I'm actually a little unclear on this) erase YMMV entries because they're representing the views of complete wastes of humanity, but when they're blatantly written by those people it's certainly unacceptable, and also raises serious questions of how much this is actually a thing and how much it's just the editor responsible ranting about their own hangups.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#1890: Nov 21st 2022 at 3:10:47 PM

Yeah, we don't delete opinions just because we dislike those opinions, but...

This is a bad example because it spends the entire time complaining and then tacks on a "some people like it tho" at the end. It doesn't give the other "side" a time of day, so it can be cut for that.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Notsofriendly Since: Sep, 2013 Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
#1891: Nov 21st 2022 at 8:38:13 PM

I'm with everyone else; this is extremely blatant one-sided complaining. Based on how this entry was written, the original writer doesn't seem like they'd want to acknowledge whatever middle-ground there may be on this issue (if it's even a real issue at all). Best to just cut it entirely than risk an edit war.

Edited by Notsofriendly on Nov 21st 2022 at 11:41:59 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#1892: Dec 1st 2022 at 1:21:34 PM

So, I found this Broken Base entry for Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness and I'm curious if this really counts or not:

  • The incessant need to compare this film to Everything Everywhere All at Once, another 2022 multiverse movie. Some feel it’s a necessary comparison to spark discussion on how Marvel movies get more attention than independent original films like EEAAO. While others find it to be an utterly pointless comparison; how both films’ different ways of approaching the multiverse concept are equally valid; and how putting one above the other causes an unnecessary rivalry.

This entry isn't about the film itself, but about people comparing it to another movie. I'm pretty sure Broken Base entries aren't supposed to be about discourse that's outside the work itself, as it's commenting more on the Fandom Rivalry between the two films.

Should it be cut?

Edited by chasemaddigan on Dec 1st 2022 at 4:21:56 AM

WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
#1893: Dec 1st 2022 at 1:44:42 PM

[up]I say cut. BB should only concern the work itself.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#1894: Dec 1st 2022 at 10:09:01 PM

[up]Seconded since that's not what Broken Base is about.

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#1895: Dec 2nd 2022 at 2:09:28 PM

[up]Agreed.

It sounds much more like Fandom Rivalry than Broken Base. The latter is about fan disagreements within the work itself, while the former is between works.

Kirby is awesome.
FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#1897: Dec 15th 2022 at 12:46:50 PM

From YMMV.Shawn Mendes:

  • Another example would be in August of 2019 when it was revealed he made racist tweets on Twitter. His apology by deflecting the blame on his friends and avoiding responsibility for it didn't help.

Only lists one side of the argument, easy cut.

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#1898: Dec 16th 2022 at 11:31:02 PM

[up]Maybe hide assuming there were people defending him and rewrite it to make it sound less one-sided. Granted, I don't know exactly what he said and I'm unfamiliar with that controversy.

For the record, I definitely do not condone racism; I just don't know what he said and I feel sometimes people misuse words like "racist" via throwing them around.

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#1899: Dec 27th 2022 at 5:41:43 PM

YMMV.Mortal Kombat 11

  • Base-Breaking Character: Kronika was intended to be a breakout star, instead what happened was the total opposite. Kronika was incredibly unpopular within the most vocal parts of fandom. Fans of the character becoming a Silent Majority, while her haters grew in size and voice. When the writers of Mortal Kombat 11 attempted to explain such issues fans had with the character, it only made things worse. Specifically, her motives are vague, and what the arcade endings imply about her being a well-intentioned perfectionist aren't brought up in the main game, making her look flat. The fact that she's done the same song and dance with Raiden countless times yet doesn't seem to learn from her mistakes has earned her some mockery as well. There's also people who don't like her introducing Titans as a concept in Mortal Kombat and the fact that she's said to be responsible for everything bad that has happened, devaluing whatever the previous villains have done, hasn't charmed many fans. Regardless, there are people who still think she's interesting, at least in design.

This seems too slanted to negativity, as only the complaints are explained/elaborated upon without meaningly saying why others like her.

YMMV.Armored Core

Seem like misuse as overwhelmingly about complaints and only a token mention of like without explaining why. The Franchise Killer part I saw no evidence for and my impression is it was due to the Souls series taking over a their cash cow.

indigoJay from The Astral Plane Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#1900: Dec 28th 2022 at 12:13:07 AM

[up] The Kronika example should certainly be cut down. It might be salvageable—I can try expanding on the positive camp. The other example should be cut down as well.

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.

Total posts: 2,332
Top