Consensus has arrived at four criteria for Broken Base:
- A sustained conflict: short-term conflicts that are quickly forgotten don't count.
- Corollary: Conflicts about upcoming works based on previews, trailers, and speculation are short-term by definition and should be cut on sight.
- An exceptionally vicious conflict: a simple disagreement where the various factions have little problem co-existing doesn't count.
- Two or more large, vocal, and entrenched factions within the fanbase: a tiny Vocal Minority that won't shut up about their pet peeve but is vastly outnumbered by more reasonable fans doesn't count. Nor does a silent majority that likes what they like (or hates what they hate) but doesn't make a big deal about it.
- Corollary: the fanbase must itself be large enough to support two or more large and entrenched factions. This is more likely to be the case with broad fandoms (e.g. "Star Wars fans" or "anime fans") as opposed to narrow ones (fans of one particular work such as a single film or video game with no sequels, adaptations, or spinoffs).
- Little to no middle ground: Cases in which the vast majority of the fandom just plain doesn't care too much about the disagreements of a few fringe elements don't count.
- A sustained conflict: short-term conflicts that are quickly forgotten don't count.
- Corollary: Conflicts about upcoming works based on previews, trailers, and speculation are short-term by definition and should be cut on sight.
- An exceptionally vicious conflict: a simple disagreement where the various factions have little problem co-existing doesn't count.
- Two or more large, vocal, and entrenched factions within the fanbase: a tiny Vocal Minority that won't shut up about their pet peeve but is vastly outnumbered by more reasonable fans doesn't count. Nor does a silent majority that likes what they like (or hates what they hate) but doesn't make a big deal about it.
- Corollary: the fanbase must itself be large enough to support two or more large and entrenched factions. This is more likely to be the case with broad fandoms (e.g. "Star Wars fans" or "anime fans") as opposed to narrow ones (fans of one particular work such as a single film or video game with no sequels, adaptations, or spinoffs).
- Little to no middle ground: Cases in which the vast majority of the fandom just plain doesn't care too much about the disagreements of a few fringe elements don't count.
Broken Base is ostensibly about deep-seated arguments within a fanbase. Okay, fine. That's a thing that happens. The problem is that many entries are written in such a way as to side firmly with one side over the other, to the point where it's a thinly-veiled excuse for complaining. They tend to spend the majority of space laying out one side's argument for why a particular entry or element in a franchise is the Worst Thing Ever(TM), and then wrap up saying something like, "...but there are some people who like it."
Example: In YMMV.Mass Effect 2:
That's... just plain not the case. Broad consensus is that ME2 is the high point of the series. There are certainly folks who prefer ME1, some vociferously, but it's only a very vocal minority who tear into 2 the way the writer of this entry does.
(Mod edited to streamline, previous text in folder)
Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 19th 2025 at 9:31:48 AM
I've removed this from RWBY Chibi:
- Broken Base: The choice to continue RWBY Chibi under the Neon Konbini Anthology Series divided a number of fans: While some were happy the series was being continued in *some* format, others decry it being used as a cheap draw to the new series, finding the other shorts severely lacking and deriding how Chibi segments are MUCH shorter than previous seasons due to sharing the episode length with other segments, with multiple comments either complaining about the lack of more RWBY Chibi in the segments/badmouthing the non-Chibi segments or just giving timestamps to the Chibi segments.
I've removed it because Neon Konbini only started airing on the 27th May, and the season hasn't finished airing its weekly releases. So, it'll be months before a Broken Base entry can be discussed.
That said, I haven't seen any kind of fandom civil war about this. There's a general consensus in the fandom that it's nice they wanted to continue Chibi, but how they've done it is annoying; some fans complain about the annoyance, others don't. This entry is basically suggesting "some people complain, some don't" constitutes a Broken Base. It's therefore coming across as complaining that's trying to masquerade as a legitimate entry.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 4th 2021 at 11:27:33 AM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.Bringing up the following example from Wolverine And The X Men:
- Broken Base: The entire series had this going on among comic fans. Some believe it to be the best, most pure and most spiritually honest X-Men series ever, others felt it was just another lame Wolverine cash grab loaded with mostly flat, unlikable characters and mediocre writing.
I don't recall anyone actively saying that show is lame, at least not enough for it to qualify, so the example should probably either be cut or be rewritten so it's not as bashy.
I found this on Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days and I'm not sure about the formatting of it, do we add these "\\" after a paragraph for some of them or not? I'm assuming no because the example here, where the second paragraph doesn't have any bullets, is like that on the page as well and doesn't look like what the wiki usually shows. Also do we count Meta examples?:
- Meta example: Should this game (or movie, in the 1.5+2.5 HD ReMix) be played before, or after Kingdom Hearts II? In real life, this was released in 2009, after II's 2005 release, so some plot points in II are treated as understood and receive further elaboration (for example, Roxas's ultimate fate, Xemnas' final goal in II, the identities of the Organization members who are mysteriously hooded in the beginning of II, and Riku disguising himself as Xehanort at the end of this game). Playing it after II also gives context to who Roxas and Axel are immediately, so they're more emotionally attached from the slow start of this game, and it keeps the beginning of II as intentionally confusing as it arguably should be, when the game had first released.\\
On the other hand, chronologically, this game occurs roughly during Chain of Memories, so playing it before II still keeps the story coherent and ultimately spoils minor plot points while giving gravity to the other Organization members who, in II, don't have as much of a role. The ending of 358/2 also perfectly aligns with the beginning of II. The true splitting point in the fandom happened when the official 1.5+2.5 HD ReMix decided to place 358/2 Days before II in the menu order while Birth by Sleep (the latest game by release date) is still at the bottom, after II, indicating a conscious decision to encourage players to watch 358/2 Days before playing II. In the months leading up to III's release, expect at least one argument to break out between fans whenever a gaming personality decides to (re)play the entire series in one order or the other. There's also some who argue to watch the movie at a certain point of KH 2 rather than before or after but what point that is is ALSO debated
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
From YMMV.Jo Jos Bizarre Adventure Stone Ocean:
- Enrico Pucci's race is a common point of contention. One the one hand, every known member of his family has white skin, and a racist detective with ties to the KKK doesn't react negatively to him. On the other hand, every single one of his appearances depicts him as being dark skinned (dark enough to where it'd have to be an extreme tan), he has very close-cropped hair as is common with black men, and there's nothing saying that he couldn't be partly of African descent.
I don't think this debate is heated enough to qualify. Maybe some people think Pucci is black and others think he isn't, but I haven't seen any big debates or flame wars about it.
Maybe not outright flame wars, but in my experience people do feel pretty strongly about it and it does often inspire civil but nevertheless quite passionate debates where people will throw out evidence to convince those in the other camp of their own beliefs whenever they see an opportunity to.
Edited by AlleyOop on Jul 6th 2021 at 2:15:12 PM
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I haven't seen much debate about Pucci's race outside of a few reddit threads. I don't think it fits the requirements of "at least two large factions".
x4
I don't know what a meta example would be for this reaction, but that mentions nothing about whether the fanbase is split on the topic
Edited by captainpat on Jul 8th 2021 at 8:36:19 AM
Bringing up the following examples from Jem and the Holograms (2015):
- Broken Base:
- Some suggest that the movie was hindered by the fact that it had to do an origin story for Jem and her band, and that another film featuring The Misfits probably would have been a Surprisingly Improved Sequel. Others feel that it would have sucked anyway.
- Eric being a woman. See They Changed It, Now It Sucks! for the first set of opinions. Others noted that Juliette Lewis's performance was one of the redeeming things about the film.
It could be referring to the broader Jem fanbase.
BTW, any feedback on my older Splash Mountain question?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 8th 2021 at 12:10:23 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.- Broken Base: As the game grows larger and larger in popularity, it led to quite a debate about how fun the game is between amateurs and veterans who played this game. A lot of people believed that the game's unique style (graphics, music, Newgrounds culture, etc.) and accessibility attracted a lot of fans, especially younger ones. Indeed, a lot of them even expressed how this is the first rhythm game they've ever played, and led them into the Rhythm Game genre. Since they do not have the experience, some have expressed how hard the songs are. However, many rhythm game veterans have instead stated how easy the base game is, even with difficult mods, despite the game's not designed to be hardcore difficult. Along with the fact that the whole chart of the song is slightly too early, many veterans didn't understand how the game could get so popular. Some fans have also expressed how this game may have overshadowed other rhythm games like Guitar Hero or osu!. That being said, there are still veterans who enjoy the game.
Ignoring the fact that this is a bigass wall of text, is this even valid?
Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
October 2020, so it's past six months.
x4 Gonna say no. Broken Base is not every disagreement within the fandom. Unless this is very vicious one it shouldn't be there.
I think the Friday Night Funkin' example might fit better under Casual-Competitive Conflict, I'm pretty sure CCF is for stuff that has strategy like fighting games though, not for whether one game is too easy/too hard.
Feel free to help with the sandbox or edit my troper wall
The page does say it can extend to other genres. FNF doesn't have multiplayer as far as I know, but it does have some sort of strategy as a Rhythm Game?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 12th 2021 at 11:14:55 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.This is on Peter Pan, referring to the Disney version:
Broken Base: The movie itself has entered this in the modern age. Some still view it as a Disney classic, while others feel it's a bad adaptation of the original play/novel. The racist portrayal of the Indians doesn't help.
cut. Broken Base is about conflicts within the fandom. Some people being fans of a work while some people hating it is not a Broken Base.
Or among fans of the Peter Pan story in general?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 16th 2021 at 10:02:10 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Probably, but then the entry would explain how it's Broken Base within those fandoms.
Edited by captainpat on Jul 16th 2021 at 8:11:51 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
I found BrokenBase.Dead By Daylight. Most of the page looks like complaints about balance updates, which would likely not last long enough to count since they'd probably get fixed quickly in a future balance patch.
- There's one that can be seen on the YMMV page. Is the game a fascinating story, ruined by a crappy game? Or a boringly depressing Shoot the Shaggy Dog story in an otherwise enjoyable game?
The way this is written makes it sound like everyone who likes the game's lore hates the gameplay, and everyone who likes the game hates the lore.
- Killers camping the hooks is a point of contention. Some say it's a legitimate strategy to catch more players that try to save them, while others say it hurts both the killer's chances of winning (as the other players can just ignore the person writhing on the hook and finish starting the other generators) and makes the experience unfun for the survivor they are essentially Griefing.
- A patch later made the health gauge of hooked survivors decrease slower if the killer is nearby, which was identified as a bug and quickly removed, showing which side the developers are on - though the tactic also causes a drop in the Hunter score for the Killer, which leads to fewer Bloodpoints earned in the match.
Indentation aside, I think this might be a valid example? - Conversely, pallet looping for the survivors.What is pallet looping? Some complain that this is an unfair mechanic, allowing the other survivors to repair generators while the killer is occupied, and is a boring and cheap strategy, while others say it's a viable tactic, and that the game is already in favor of the killer anyway.
I'm not familiar enough with this fandom yet to tell whether this counts.
- The removal of the "profile snipe" was also a base breaker. Before the change, Steam players could look at the killer's profile by simply opening their Friends page and look at the "currently in game section". Many players used this to block killers on Steam they didn't like for many reasons (camping, exploiting, etc.); killers could also do the same with survivor profiles. However, an update was launched that removed the survivors' ability to see the killer's profile… but allowed the killers to still do it, and even made it easier by simply allowing them to click the survivor's name and be directly sent to their profile.
This doesn't explain what the controversy is and what the two sides are.
- The Victory Cube update. The Victory Cube completely reworked the Killer ranking system: Instead of determining how many pips you got from bloodpoints, the progress to rank is now affected by "Killer Goals". These "Killer Goals" are gained by hooking, sacrificing, and killing survivors. While many killers were willing to adapt to this, a few killers didn't like this new system.
- Additionally, the update brought the nerfs of the Memento Moris and Brand New Parts. In order to be able to Mori someone, you must have hooked them once, meaning you just can't kill them right away anymore. The Brand New Part no longer instantly repaired the generator, instead making it give out more skillchecks than usual with more progression. Many were accepting of the changes, but many also didn't like them either.
- This escalated even further when the Ebony Moris were changed again in December 2020 to require two hooks prior to their use - leaving Killers feeling as though they were rather pointless aside from getting an animation that you're locked into doing, leaving Survivors free to go about their business.
This was clearly added right after the patch. I'm sure the players moved on to bickering about whatever the next patch was very quickly. - Additionally, the update brought the nerfs of the Memento Moris and Brand New Parts. In order to be able to Mori someone, you must have hooked them once, meaning you just can't kill them right away anymore. The Brand New Part no longer instantly repaired the generator, instead making it give out more skillchecks than usual with more progression. Many were accepting of the changes, but many also didn't like them either.
- The Huntress. Many people, particularly survivor players, weren't fond of the idea of a ranged killer. However, many seem fine with her now.
So it's not controversial anymore? This should have been on Base-Breaking Character anyway.
- The Doctor Cube update was a major base breaking moment. The update buffed the Doctor by making survivors unable to perform any interactions for a few seconds after being shocked as well as making the "skillchecks being in random locations" a baseline ability instead of an add-on. But the most controversial change was the illusionary pallets, which replaced normal pallets after they are broken. Many people claim that he is completely overpowered now, while others think he is fine now.
This is another balance patch example added right after release.
- The fact that all of the guest characters are Heroic Mimes aside from Ash Williams. Some think it removes a lot of their personality (especially in the case of the survivors, Freddy, and Ghostface), while others are just happy they're included at all.
This sounds like "one side doesn't mind", so I'm not sure if it's okay.
- The release of Leatherface caused an argument between a few people about whether or not he was even needed since they already had a chainsaw-wielding hillbilly killer. To the developers' credit, the Hillbilly and Leatherface have very different playstyles.
This was literally added the day after release.
- The A Nightmare on Elm Street chapter…
- The fact that everything from this chapter was from the 2010 remake instead of the original was quite the split.
- Freddy Krueger's inclusion. Some were excited for another horror icon to be added in, while others were annoyed by the lack of the developers' originality since Freddy was coming out right after Leatherface.
- Freddy, upon first being released, split the community quite a bit: Some said he was completely overpowered and he needed a nerf, while others said he was too weak and needed a buff. And when Freddy was nerfed, another similar split occurred again.
- Quentin Smith. A decent-looking survivor with some decent perks or an ugly looking freak with trash perks? Also, interesting character on his own, or another element from the 2010 remake that serves as a Replacement Scrappy for franchise mainstay Nancy Thompson?
- The Badham Preschool map. Many say it's just a Haddonfield reskin while some say that it has just enough of its own assets to be unique enough.
Another example added literally the same day as the patch. None look like good examples. - The Saw chapter was in a similar spot to the Nightmare on Elm Street chapter.
- The reveal teaser
left many excited to see yet another well-known horror character come to the game, but just as many were disappointed. It didn't help that she was the third licensed killer in a row coming after Leatherface and Freddy.
- Are Reverse Bear Traps a useless mechanic or are they fine since their objective is to waste survivors' time, rather than directly kill?
- For those without good knowledge of the Saw franchise, Amanda being the killer instead of the titular John Kramer came out of left field and sparked some controversy on the forums on release.
- Moreover, a Saw killer looks very counterintuitive and goes against all of what Jigsaw stood for. Then again, Amanda was known to make unwinnable games with the express intention to kill the subject despite being Jigsaw's follower.
Saying that it's "in a similar spot" as the aforementioned bad example is not a good sign for this one's validity. And as it turns out, it was literally added before it even came out! - The reveal teaser
- Curtain Call Chapter:
- The addition of The Clown. While some were happy to finally see a clown as a killer in the game, just as many were disappointed, seeing as it's a generic monster idea and how the devs had previously said they didn't want to add in a clown killer. In the same vein, most are happy to finally see an original character, but some are disappointed by the easy option of a killer clown.
- The new map being a new version of the Crotus Prenn Asylum instead of a whole new map. While some were glad to see Crotus finally getting a new map, people also wanted a completely new map.
Another example added before release. I don't think people are still talking about this. - Freddy's rework. Was Freddy buffed too much or is he fine as he is?
Yay, more balance whining. If he was buffed too much, he'd get nerfed in a later patch anyway.
- The Rift, Dead by Daylight's version of a Battle Pass. Is it a good way to earn new cosmetics while giving money to the developers, or are the developers getting greedy and putting a Battle Pass in a game which doesn't need one?
Guess when this was added. Go ahead. I haven't seen that much discussion about this yet.
- The Spirit. Is she a rightfully strong killer and her detractors are just salty cause they cannot stand a game where they have a chance of losing, or is she a broken killer with no counterplay and her supporters are deluded and extreme tryhards who want only 4K's? With the developers tweaking her power, the debate has been red-hot, since almost nobody thinks the rework is right. Either the devs are nerfing her too much, or not nerfing her enough.
More balance whining added shortly after release.
- Hex: No One Escapes Death seems to be in an interesting spot in the community. Some players think the perk is balanced, as survivors should have been cleansing totems throughout the game while working on gens, as they give a huge point bonus to them anyway. Meanwhile, detractors of NOED think that the perk rewards killers who find themselves unable to kill survivors a little too well, and it's in bad practice to have to rely on the generators being completed to be able to perform well.
Examples Are Not Recent, balance whining.
Conclusion: nearly everything on the page is just complaining about whatever the latest patch was at the time. I think it can safely be cut, and the few valid examples moved to the YMMV page.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 4th 2021 at 3:58:27 PM

On Disney Theme Parks, there's a commented out note not to add a Broken Base entry about the planned retheming of Splash Mountain. The six-month waiting period has long expired (it was ready on December 2020), but the reaction is still pre-release. However, it was an intensely polarizing reaction. Can it be added even though the retooling hasn't been completed yet? Could it be reworked into a "Should Splash Mountain be retooled" entry?
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 1st 2021 at 5:57:17 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.