Broken Base Cleanup

Now that misuse has been cut and the Base-Breaking Character entries have been transferred to the YMMV page, does anyone else think BrokenBase.The Last Of Us Part II is short enough to be cut and merged into YMMV.The Last Of Us Part II?

Unless the amount of valid entries suddenly explode enough to warrant their own pages, I agree to cut and merge it.

Edited by Siegfried1337 on Feb 3rd 2021 at 5:29:45 AM

So, does anyone have issues with my judgments here?

Could you further specify on which parts need to be cut?

Yeah, it can be hard to specify which parts need to be cut, such as "this whole paragraph" or "just these sentences".

Edited by Siegfried1337 on Feb 3rd 2021 at 9:50:22 AM

I kinda mention which ones I think are worth keeping or not. Will modify if it's not clear enough.

Removed some entries, though I withheld some of them mostly either because you stated it, or if said entries were either "good, but needs some rewriting", or if I have a unsure opinion about them.

Alright, I have some entries here that I want to check if they're correct.

Could you highlight what you want to add/remove?

Uh... It's less "I want the following entries added/removed or such" and more "I want to check the validity of these entries"

That question is probably better for a work specific thread, if there is one.

This is on YMMV.The Simpsons S 4 E 2 A Streetcar Named Marge

• Broken Base: Residents of New Orleans were upset by the references to their city as a Wretched Hive. The writers included an apology in the next episode in the form of Bart's chalkboard gag.

"People complained and writers responded" isn't Broken Base at all.

That's just a group of people with the same opinion. It better fits something like Unfortunate Implications (the writers responding works as a citation).

Internet Backdraft is Flame Bait so I highly doubt that'd fly.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 21st 2021 at 2:49:15 PM

Suddenly wondering if "Audience Backlash" could make a valid supertrope for examples like this...probably too risky.

Sounds like an attempt at an Author's Saving Throw or some trivia trope if the creators apologized.

The entry for Warrior Cats: A Vision of Shadows needs some trimming.

• Broken Base: As is inevitable with Warrior Cats fans.
  • Should Briarlight survive this series, or should she be let go due to her continued survivals getting ridiculous? She doesn't, leaving fans divided over whether her death was poignant and fitting or cheap and full of iffy implications
  • Just like last time, the time period the series takes place in. Some fans are happy to see the modern characters again, while others feel like their story was wrapped up well enough in The Last Hope and Bramblestar's Storm, or that it had grown stale, and would have preferred either another series following the Dawn of the Clans characters, or one set in the distant future.
  • Bramblestar and Squirrelflight having four kits, only for two of them to die. Is this an interesting development, or is it completely pointless? It doesn't help that all of the other protagonists of major Warriors books from 2013-2016 (Gray Wing, Clear Sky, Thunder, Moth Flight, Tallstar, and Bramblestar himself) all have siblings who died as kits as well.
  • Alderheart being a medicine cat. While some are excited for another medicine cat protagonist, others are unhappy, since unless there's some twist, ThunderClan is going to have three medicine cats, which seems like overkill. This was given a bit of a nod in Thunder and Shadow.
  • Inevitably, shipping. Case #1: Breezepelt x Heathertail. Some are peeved that Breezepelt gets a family after everything he's done, while others like the pairing a lot and think it's a shame we don't see how it played out. Also, due to Breezepelt himself being a huge Base-Breaking Character, opinions are split over whether Breezepelt will be a great father or a horrible one. Crowfeather's Trial shows he's at least a loving mate, and Kate has stated she thinks he'll be a great father, so the implication is more for the former.
  • Shipping case #2: Ivypool x Fernsong becoming canon in Darkest Night. Some are ecstatic because of the hinted potential of a male queen and the breaking of gender roles, while others find this annoyingly shoehorned into story, arguing that there are no gender roles to be broken in the first place in Clan society. And that's not even going into the upheaval about whether Ivypool should have a mate in the first place.
  • Kate's statement that "there are currently no plans for a female arch villain". Some don't really mind, but others are disappointed, since there's only been one female main villain and a sprinkling of female minor villains so far. It doesn't help that two of the most popular candidates for the arc's main villain were Sparkpelt and Featherpelt.
  • Bramblestar and Rowanstar's decision to separate Violetshine and Twigbranch. Some think it was the fairest trade, while others believe it to be a heartless decision stemming from selfish motives, and contributing to the sisters' Broken Bird status at the end of Thunder and Shadow.
  • Tigerheart becoming deputy after Crowfrost's death. Some believe it'll create a good ying-tang with Tigerstar — Tigerheart being a good deputy and eventual good leader in dark contrast with his grandfather Tigerstar. Other believe he's done nothing to prove himself worthy of the deputyship and that he's too young. There's also the fact that Rowanstar first picked his daughter's mate as deputy, and now his son, leading some to believe he's being bias in his decisions.
  • The revelation that Onestar is the father of Darktail. Some fans think that this is a brilliant twist that no one saw coming, while others think it was a senseless twist thrown in at the last minute to cause drama. Many feel that it contradicts Onestar's early characterization, as well.
  • Sparkpelt being Demoted to Extra after The Apprentice's Quest has taken many by surprise. Some are okay with it, since this gives more interesting characters spotlight, while others think They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character.

Looking at it at a glance, almost all of them seem too minor and civil to be this trope. Maybe the Ivypool/Fernsong thing qualifies, but that's probably more shipping-related (ie people who think she should have stayed single vs. wanted her to hook up with [insert character here] instead). I'd say Onestar being Darktail's dad too, but I haven't seen enough recent debates about that plot point to be confident about that.

Edited by Apocrypha on Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:17:28 AM

Brining up these examples from YMMV.Yu Gi Oh VRAINS:

• Broken Base:
  • Before the series began, some fans had doubts about VRAINS based on its use and introduction of the controversial New Master Rules brought on by Link Summoning, while others were excited for the series due to its VR theme and interesting character and story potential. Feels likes this is entirely pre-release controversy that was added way too early. However, by the end of the series, link summoning is pretty divisive, so I could probably give this entry a rewrite.
  • Masahiro Hikokubo once again, returning as the duel layout director has caused a stir after his last few showings in both ZEXAL and ARC-V. Having written every duel in all the series up to this point, many feel like he is far too burnt out to write any entertaining duels anymore, often pointing to Yuma's "prep for, then sit on, Utopia for the rest of the duel" strategy in ZEXAL and how wooden some of the duels in ARC-V became as the series went on, with the overuse of Action Cards and the infamous "You still take the damage!" line being uttered every other duel. His defenders, however, point out how Yuma's strategy was in character for him and how ARC-V was a case of trying to focus on all the summoning mechanics made it hard for certain duels to maintain that focus, and are confident with the series focusing on Link summoning, the duels will become a lot more entertaining and natural again now that Hikokubo doesn't have to stress balancing all the summoning mechanics each duel. Also entirely pre-release, and only talking about previous shows in the series. And while Hikokubo's duel writing does get some complaints, I don't see it enough to be a Broken Base, so I think this can just go.
  • The recap episodes. Are they justified due to production issues, or does the excess number of them between every few episodes tarnish the reputation of the show? I do see disagreements over whether the Troubled Production justifies the show's problems in general, but is an out-of-universe problem like that allowed for this trope?
  • Contributing to Takeru's status as a Base-Breaking Character is his victory over the two major characters of Season 1, Go and Aoi. Some feel that they both deserved their losses for holding the Jerkass Ball and showing needless aggression toward the protagonists in their attempts to obtain the Ignis. Others felt that the losses just hammer in how unimportant everyone other than him and Playmaker is in the big scheme of things. I think this can just go. I never see people defending this nowadays, most agree it was bad. The only discussion I see is over whether it and other issues make Takeru a bad character, but that's all covered under his BBC entry.

Any thoughts? My big problem is I think a lot of these were way too knee-jerky and should've violated the 6 month rule if it existed 2 or 3 years ago when these were written, though I'm not sure it started being implemented.

In my opinion a Broken Base that arises over issues due to production can certain count, but the real issue is more, is it actually that divisive? Which I can't seem to tell from that entry as written. All of the rest I feel confident in throwing out.

Did this thread approve Tony Stark getting an entry on Marvel Cinematic Universe?

You're asking in the wrong thread, but yes.

Hmm, good point. Thinking it over, I do think the issue of whether it acts as an excuse or not for the recaps (or for the show in general) is kind of just an it does or it doesn't sort of issue. Not really something people argue over. I think I'll just delete it.

Well I never knew about that other thread. Maybe Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character should be edited to link to their respective cleaning threads of they don't already.

Bringing up the following examples from Superman Returns:

• Broken Base:
  • The premise of the film. Either it's a genuinely intriguing What If? scenario that seriously shakes up the status quo of the Superman mythos, or it's just another half-assed excuse to revisit cinematic characters from 1980 instead of telling a new story.
  • The fanbase was (and remains) divided over this movie. While numerous fans saw Returns as a sincere ode to the earlier films, others were dismayed that the film didn't use any material from the more modern comics (given that the earlier films and their Silver-Bronze Age style Superman characterization was about 20 years out of date by the time this film was made) and completely changed the dynamic of Lois and Superman's relationship. While the film received some good reviews, the overall polarizing reception and underwhelming box office caused plans for a sequel to fizzle out, despite director Bryan Singer promising a more action packed follow up.
  • There has been some controversy with Jason White, since for some his role as Superman's illegitimate son make him look like a deadbeat parent, while others see it as a good closure to the character.

Just a question, do arguments about what the worst installment in a franchise is count as examples? I found this entry for SpongeBob SquarePants about what's the worst episode of the series:

From my experience, there isn't really a huge divide regarding which of these episodes is "worse". Most fans agree these episodes are pretty terrible, and which one is the worst tends to be up to personal opinion. I don't really see people argue about it. It just seems to be an excuse to rant about these episodes some more. Should I cut it?

Yeah, that seems like an excuse to complain. Most fans just agree on all those episodes being interchangeably terrible. The amount of vitriol they deserve might be a Broken Base but IDK.

Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 6th 2021 at 8:56:19 AM