Broken Base Cleanup

Over the years i noticed that Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character were only added to mangas or light novels after they gotten an Animated Adaptation and it hasn't been 6 months after the anime debut. While the content themselves might have been there for a long time, way past the 6 month rule, it seems it's only noticeable after the adaptation. Should the 6 month rule still be applied since its dealing with the adaptation?

The rule is six months after the controversy begins. If there wasn't much of a base to break before the anime, then yes, the countdown starts from when the anime fans started arguing.

Yes, that kind of issue popped up when I created a page for Wotakoi: Love is Hard for Otaku following the start of the anime adaptation. Before I knew it, PF created the YMMV page and immediately started with a Broken Base entry, cementing my naked emnity for that particular Entry Pimp of a troper.

If it's something only the newer fans care about (things that are specific to the anime or production side like Adaptation Deviation, animation, VA castings, etc. will always go here), then I'd say to hold off. However if it's a debate that was known to already existed within the prior fandom and the anime adaptation simply amplified it then I think it's valid. I don't know enough about the fandom for this show to judge but the examples I saw seem like they're based off anime-only knowledge and thus not an existing fandom divide that fans of the manga who have a more complete understanding would have had.

Found on YMMV.Tekken 7 (I removed a few blatant one-sided complaints, one example that was blatantly added pre-release, and one that was too early to call):

• Broken Base:
  • Upon its announcement, Tekken 7 itself quickly became the most divisive entry in the entire series since the fourth game.^Actually... Given how big this entry already is, it is of wonder if Tekken 7 is already more divisive than Tekken 4. The common complaint was that it's more of the same, but one camp saw the series' staples as tried-and-true and thus found nothing wrong with it. Another camp, however, claimed that, between the polarizing new characters, the recycled assets (character models, sound bytes, animations, voices and mechanics), the lackluster soundtrack and the lack of hype in comparison to other fighting games, this installment is evidence that the Tekken series is on life support.
  Sounds like this was added too soon to count. I'm not sure if it's a valid example.
  • Story Mode itself. Katsuhiro Harada promised Tekken 7's story would finish the Mishima storyline. However, what's seen in Tekken 7 is a complete focus on a single point: Heihachi and Kazuya's feud. Even Akuma, who was promoted like hell as an active character in the story, has a minor role close to those two. Actually, Kazumi Mishima, which was supposed to be this game's Final Boss, is completely shunted aside in favor of Kazuya and Heihachi. The end result is that the plot only solves the feud between Kazuya and Heihachi with Kazuya as the victor, and all other important plot threads of the Myth Arc, namely Lars, Jin and Asuka, get left forgotten. The entire value of the game's story to players may slide from Play the Game, Skip the Story all the way up to Casual-Competitive Conflict. There's also whether you consider the game's Story Mode as if Harada kept his promise by means of Exact Words^note This would mean ignoring Jin and Lars' status as sons of a Mishima, and Jin's quest to get rid of the Devil Gene that culminated in him becoming a Fallen Hero in Tekken 6, or not.
  This looks like one-sided complaining, with not enough focus on those who liked the story.
  • The lack of character endings on Arcade Mode, along with the way Story Mode treats everyone who isn't Kazuya or Heihachi Mishima, was divisive enough to need enforcement of the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment thanks to the Casual-Competitive Conflict. Not helping was the fact that the same people were fresh off Street Fighter V 's exact same problems with general lack of content causing the exact same heated debate. Thanks to this, people who actually paid attention to Tekken 's storyline became afraid of what would become of Soul Calibur VI, not only because of what was seen on T7, but also because of Soul Calibur V being an even more egregious example that released five years prior. Thankfully, SCVI featured two separate campaign modes for players to work through, with dedicated story modes for each character and another mode with light RPG elements for custom characters.
  Another example that's far too one-sided.
  • Rage Arts are either a neat inclusion, or are out of place in the series. Not helping their case is the fact that a majority of them are simply several of a character's regular moves put together in a cinematic sequence.
  And another one-sided example, with the positive side getting only a token "a neat inclusion".
  • The Nerf to backdashing and sidestepping, two of Tekken's biggest gameplay components. It's either received well for giving newcomers less to worry about when learning the game, or hated for the exact same reason.
  Not sure about this one.'
  • It is worth pointing out that most of the above points mainly applied to its initial console release. Since then, Tekken 7 has evolved to arguably become the most competitively-healthy installment in the entire franchise, enjoying success and praise for nailing many of the solid fundamentals that makes fans love the series to begin with.
  ...so never mind everything above, turns out there was no sustained conflict?

YMMV.Persona

• Broken Base: The new soundtrack for the PSP release, done in the same style as the post-Persona 3 games. Some people aren't fans of the change and preferred the somewhat moodier soundtrack of the original. Oddly enough, many of those tracks ARE in the PSP version with some great remixes to them; but only in the Snow Queen Quest. If you have no interest in doing that quest; that's tough.

No mention of the people who liked the new soundtrack.

BTW, do you guys think the name might be the problem? Tropers could be interpreting it as "Decision that fractured the fanbase" ("fractured" in the sense that it made people hate it) rather than "People who strongly feel differently on this decision".

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 6th 2020 at 12:47:16 PM

That Persona entry really ought to be put under They Changed It, Now It Sucks!. As it is it reads too much like a "some people think this" entry anyway.

I removed this entry from Castlevania (2017), since it hasn't been 6 months yet and it was also erroneously listed as Base Breaker:

That sounds like a case of Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy or Ending Aversion, if anything.

Of course, those are largely misuse.

YMMV.Your Lie In April:

• Broken Base: The Mood Whiplash between comedy and serious drama is one of the things that gets disagreement over. Do the slapstick moments bring some much-needed levity, especially in the heavier latter half of the story, or are they just disruptive?

Hmm, that entry actually sounds pretty OK to me right now. Although I don't have enough context to tell how valid it is.

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 10th 2020 at 7:54:53 AM

This was added to YMMV.Mortal Kombat 11:

• Broken Base: Jax's Tower Ending was a point of contention when the game released. Did you feel it was pandering to Social Justice Warriors?, or did you respect the fact that he used the power to, essentially, speed up Black History?

It was only a short-lived "nontroversy", with one side being a tiny minority of racists, and the other side being everyone else who doesn't really care all that much about it. I believe it died down within a month of the game's release, and the example itself states that it was only a point of contention "when the game released".

Edited by Zuxtron on Mar 13th 2020 at 11:01:19 AM

The way its written is also weak. And if isn't a issue non, i just remove it

Cut that. Like no one cares anymore.

This is an entry I want to include in Dragon Ball Super: Broly. It cannot be Critical Dissonance because is a discussion regarding one specific scene, not the overall movie.

• Broken Base: Naoki Tate animated segment of Goku and Vegeta debating whether to fuse or not. Some viewers hate it, due to how disproportionate and clean the characters look. However, many animation enthusiasts argue that the scene looks great and that it has great fluidity.

Edited by Tomodachi on Mar 13th 2020 at 2:07:23 AM

The Dragon Ball fanbase as a whole does not suffer a deep, sustained, and bitter divide over one small segment from one movie in the franchise.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 13th 2020 at 2:55:02 AM

It's just a divide over one scene from the movie. I honestly didn't feel like adding anything else regarding story or music, as animation discussions are interesting.

It does not fit the definition of Broken Base, which requires that the entire fanbase be broken.

Broken Base is not "minor, polite disagreements exist."

From YMMV.Catnip:

• Some readers aren’t fond of the way substance abuse is used to progress the story. Catnip is treated as a highly illegal drug in this story, requiring contacts to smuggle it in, unlike real life where it’s just a normal, harmless plant. With this context, it transforms the premise from playing a harmless prank on Blake to get her to confess to Weiss, to having Yang performed criminal acts to get hold of and drug Blake with catnip.
• Similarly, some were not happy during the chapter where Team CFVY got Weiss, who is underage, drunk. Not helping their case was that they were portrayed as rather rude and irresponsible, except for Yatsuhashi and Velvet.

Removed due to being one-sided complaining.

This entry under Psychonauts:

• Broken Base: Yay! Psychonauts 2 is being made! Oh wait, it's being crowdfunded... yeah. So far fans of Psychonauts are in two separate camps, those who are happy to help fund the game they've been waiting for so long, and those who still remember Double Fine's perceived infamous track record with crowdfunding.
  • With the progress Psychonauts 2 has made, the Broken Base has noticebly gotten less broken in favor of supporting the game.

Firstly, the second bullet implies it's no longer relevant.

Secondly, the entry seems like it'd be a better fit for the Psychonauts 2 page, but that game hasn't even come out yet.

Cut?

High Crate directed me here, so I'll just repost from my ATT:

I was looking at the YMMV page for Monty Python's Life of Brian here and after reading the Broken Base entry, I can't help but feel that there's something just a little off about it.

Broken Base: This is a film that still remains controversial. Some people assume it's a parody of Jesus, who is actually just a very minor character in the film (and himself played completely straight). Others claim the film mocks Christianity, while it can also be interpreted as mocking religion or blindly fanatical followers in general, for that matter. In a sense it also spoofs the typically heavy handed and deadly serious Bible epics. Some very devout religious people condemn the film for being blasphemous without having seen it. Some religious people who did watch it act as if this movie doesn't mock Jesus, Christianity or religion at all, which is again not totally true either. There are several very outrageous heretical scenes that could easily offend people who take their faith too seriously, but religious people with a sense of humour can enjoy the film just fine. The movie is also more than just a shocking comedy. It raises excellent points about blindly following leaders, misinterpreting so-called signs and messages and not thinking for yourself.

I don't know, but it seems like the entry is going off-topic a little bit in trying to talk about every stance on the film, and the last two sentences don't seem relevant. Also, this:

easily offend people who take their faith too seriously, but religious people with a sense of humour can enjoy the film just fine.

Seems needlessly insulting, bordering on breaking the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment.

That's an example that you could have removed with only a good edit reason, no need to ask us here. Broken Base has some objective criteria, which this does not meet.

Huh, that's a new one. Usually, Broken Base is misused for the purpose of Complaining About Shows You Don't Like with only a token acknowledgement of positive reception, but here we have Gushing About Shows You Like with a brief mention of negative reception in certain circles. But Broken Base is about divisions among fans, not fans vs. haters, so this is not a valid example.

Well put. Seconded on both counts.

Edited by HighCrate on Mar 18th 2020 at 8:57:04 AM