Broken Base Cleanup

From YMMV.Mario Vs Donkey Kong:

• Broken Base: On one hand, you have people who enjoy the Mini-style of Mario VS Donkey Kong games for its interesting, Lemmings style gameplay and interesting puzzles. On the other hand, you have people who preferred the first game in the series that was more in line with the classic Donkey Kong Arcade and Donkey Kong '94 and hate the fact that the Minis ended up hijacking the series.

I feel this goes under a separate trope, but I don't know which. Sequelitis? They Changed It, Now It Sucks!?

Since it's talking about later installments, Contested Sequel?

Move it under Contested Sequel.

I plan on adding the Diamondemption entry later today. Now here's a question - if one side of a conflict is invalidated by Word of God, but the debate still rages on afterward, does it still count as Broken Base? I'm thinking of this entry, Also from BrokenBase.Steven Universe, in particular, emphasis mine:

• The fandom is split over what, exactly, fusion is a metaphor for. Some argue that it's a straightforward metaphor for sex, and others see it as a metaphor for any and all kinds of intimacy within relationships, including friendly and familial ones (aided by Steven and Amethyst fusing in a moment of mutual understanding and support, more akin to sibling relationships). Which view you subscribe to will understandably affect how you think about Steven fusing with any of the Gems or with Connie, though Word of God has stated that it's the latter.

Edited by Crossover-Enthusiast on Sep 7th 2019 at 5:09:32 AM

Maybe its a case of Death of the Author?

From YMMV.Animal Crossing:

• Time traveling, or "TT" for short, where you change the in-game date in order to reach certain events. Some people don't want to wait a long time for new items and features, and others say time traveling goes against the spirit of the game. For what it's worth, the games consider time traveling to be a form of cheating and will punish you if you make it too obvious.
• Duplication, known as "duping", which is railed against because it makes rarer items more common, thus forcing down the overinflated prices in the online trading markets—and also removes some of the challenge of obtaining rare items. There's also concerns that duping may corrupt your save file if you do it too much, but so far there haven't been any reliable reports of that happening.
• Fans are torn whether the Animalese was better in the original titles or in the post-GameCube ones.
• Villager trading. New Leaf has a mechanic where, the day before a villager moves out (when they are "in boxes"), a friend can visit your town and convince the villager to move into their town. Some people online take advantage of this by charging Bells or trading rare items or even other villagers to let people claim their villager. Proponents of the practice consider it essentially the same as trading items online—a way to add depth to a simple game. While relatively few players engage in villager trading, many of those who do are extremely devoted to it; some people have multiple copies of the game or even multiple 3DS systems just in order to have "cycle towns" to trade more often (and hence earn more money). Some people think that villager trading defeats the purpose of the game; others are creeped out by the idea of buying and selling villagers, especially for the exorbitantly high prices—up into tens of millions of Bells—for the most popular villagers (particularly vehement opponents call it "villager trafficking"). This isn't helped by the fact that many villager traders use time traveling (another controversial mechanic) in order to make deals and transactions more quickly and easily. There's a even a Subreddit dedicated to this practice on Reddit
• Is it fun to try and please the HHA, getting the highest possible scores and best prizes, or are they merely stifling creativity?
• Similarly, is trying to get a Perfect Town a fun and engaging goal, or is it a tedious process that limits creativity?
• Are Gyroids fun to use along with your stereo for expressing your musical talents, or only useful for money and buttering up villagers for easy Villager Pictures?
• Happy Home Designer and amiibo Festival are either fun diversions from the core series or boring Filler until the next Animal Crossing core series game comes out. amiibo Festival has been getting a lot of flak from the trailer looking like the long-awaited Wii U Animal Crossing game, until the screen pans out to reveal board game tiles, and that it's another Nintendo Party Game.
• While the new addition in Welcome amiibo where Villagers take 10 days to move out of town has been mostly well received, some players find it annoying since it now takes much longer for an undesired villager to leave.
• Console games vs Handheld. Some would prefer the series stayed on handheld as the Play Every Day nature of it is ideal for handheld games. Yet, the Gamecube game is well liked and the old belief console games are better than their handheld equivalents is never far away in gaming fandoms.
• Animal Crossing Puzzle League. Some like it, viewing it as a fun little diversion, and some Panel de Pon fans were pleasantly surprised at the unlockable costume based on Lip. On the other hand, many other Panel de Pon fans were not happy at all, viewing it as the final nail in the coffin for a series that has yet to really leave Cult Classic status and which is downright infamous for being dolled up as more popular franchises.

• Time Traveling: Keep since this is a common argument between Animal Crossing players.
• Duplication: Cut since it doesn't acknowledge the pro-side.
• Animalese: Cut since this seems more like a minor disagreement.
• Villager Trading: The part at the beginning that describes the process can be shortened, but keep.
• HHA: Cut. Seems like another minor disagreement.
• Perfect Town: Cut. Another minor disagreement.
• Gyroids: Cut. Another minor disagreement.
• Happy Home Designer and amiibo Festival: Cut. amiibo Festival is generally considered to be a bad game and no one really talks about Happy Home Designer anymore.
• Villagers taking 10 days to move out: Cut. It mentions that the feature was mostly well-received.
• Console vs. Handheld: Cut since it only gives the reasoning for the handheld side and the console side is just a general statement.
• Animal Crossing Puzzle League: Cut since this example is more about Panel de Pon fans than Animal Crossing fans.

So is the Diamond entry going to be added to Steven Universe or not?

I just added it. Only got to my laptop recently, so sorry about that.

From YMMV.Pikmin:

• You're much more likely to find someone who specifically enjoyed one of the first two installments than someone who enjoyed both of them, with the sequel generally attracting more fans. They're very different games and they're both very good, but the idea of a linear game on a timer is too much for exploratory players. On the other hand, the second game treats the Pikmin as much more expendable and the original foreign atmosphere is somewhat lost. Shigeru Miyamoto aimed to rectify this for Pikmin 3 by combining both the resource management aspect of the first game and the exploration of the second game, though he prefers the first. Though a Vocal Minority, there are also a few people who felt Pikmin 3 focused a bit too much on the elements of Pikmin 1 instead of 2.
• Whether or not caves should come back. Some want them to come back because they added length to the game in comparison to the games without them^note Pikmin 1 and 3 being on the short side, and provide a difficult challenge that makes every lost Pikmin that much more devastating. Others don't want them to come back, and would rather have the developers focus on more engaging, expansive, and interesting overworlds, since cave levels could get dull and repetitive after a while, in addition to bordering on Fake Difficulty at times.
• The 3DS Pikmin game. Either you love the fact that Nintendo finally considers Pikmin a big enough franchise to make a spin-off for, and think it looks like an interesting take on the series, or you don't think 2D fits the franchise and would have preferred something more faithful to the original gameplay for the 3DS. The latter rings especially true with those who were expecting Pikmin 4 to be revealed sometime soon. The timing of its reveal didn't help any either, considering how the last two Nintendo spin-off games for the 3DS went; more than a few are leery of it from that alone.
• The controversy only continued when more details about the game surfaced, with the plot reusing the story of Pikmin 1 with Pikmin 2 elements. While this bugged people, others argued that the plot of the first game wasn't exactly all that deep to begin with. The planet apparently being different from PNF-404, the focal planet of the first three games, while still reusing the species of Pikmin, Bulborbs, and Blowhogs, makes people wonder what the point of changing the planet in the first place is.
• With rumors of Pikmin 4 being a Continuity Reboot for the franchise, there's been some discord in the fanbase over whether or not a continuity reboot is even needed for the franchise, especially with Pikmin 3 ending on a very blatant Sequel Hook. Others, however, point out that there's not much else the franchise can do with the current game setup of collecting Mac Guffins for various reasons, and a reboot would likely be a good way to freshen things up again.

Point 1 sounds like Contested Sequel, not sure about point 2, points 3, 4, and 5 sound like they were written pre-release.

1 and 3/4 sound like Contested Sequel, 2 could stay with some rewriting to emphasize that the cave system is divisive, 5 should be deleted as it's speculative troping.

1 is actually a case of Contested Sequel, 3 and 4 sound like they were added pre-release (the former even refers to it as the 3DS Pikmin rather than its final title, Hey Pikmin), and 5 is just Speculative Troping over a rumor for a game that hasn't been properly announced yet. Though 2 can be kept since the caves were a divisive addition in Pikmin 2.

I'm not where I can go through and clean and at the moment, so I thought I'd drop by and say that the Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character Discussion Dates sandbox is in desperate need of an update. Many of the "TBA" works have been given release dates, and in most cases the works with actual release dates have already passed and should be removed from the page.

This was just added to BrokenBase.Steven Universe:

• This video is a 45-minute documentary that has 1.8 million views. And why is it so popular? Because it explains in comprehensive detail as to why everything about the show is AWFUL.

I shouldn't have to explain why I got rid of it.

Remove

Pretty sure Zux already got it.

Hey quick question; is Lily Orchard using a persona while doing her videos, or is it just her actual thoughts? Because the Broken Base section of Lily Orchard seems to dip too much into her real life.

Isn't her portfolio just opinion pieces? If she's using a persona then I can only imagine that she's using it for comedic purposes.

My take on the examples:

• Broken Base:
  • Is Lily's pompous attitude endearing and silly, or one of the most insufferable personas in the Analysis community?
  This is about her reception in general, not just among her fans.
  • Is Lily's comment moderation for her videos born out of a desire to seal herself in a bubble and not allow anyone else to argue against her or an understanding of the atmosphere that Youtube comments typically suffer from?
  I'm not sure about this one, but it does read like it's basically accusing her of being an overly sensitive snowflake.
  • Lily has said on multiple occasions that Glass of Water is meant to be a played up ego, similar to Jimquisition. However, Glass of Water often lacks the absurdity of its inspiration, and repeatedly falls flat of its goal of being humorous self-aggrandizement. According to many detractors, Glass of Water is often so humorless that any claim of comedic exaggeration is a weak one at best.
  This example focuses entirely on the negative side.
  • The drama with her former friend Josh Scorcher has the base split between those who believe Lily is a self-righteous hypocritical abuser who constantly attempts to pass off the blame for her actions on others and claims she's the real victim, and those who believe that, while her more controversial acts are undeniable, she's taking too much heat for what's been going on.
    • This base was broken even further as a result of both their behavior during the 2016 Presidential election, with Lily becoming even more hostile to conservatism as a whole.
  This is a bit of a Zero-Context Example since it doesn't explain what the drama is about. It's also about Lily as a person, not about her work. Oh, and the indentation is bad.

From YMMV.Yoshis Island:

• Yoshi's New Island on 3DS is getting a bit of this for the graphics. Instead of reusing the "coloring book" look of the previous two games, the developers have chosen a style that resembles Yoshi's Island's artstyle mixed with Yoshi's Story pre-rendered 3D visuals, with backgrounds looking more painted and characters looking like claymation. Some love the style and think it fits in well with the usual Yoshi's Island aesthetic while still giving the game its own identity, while others think it looks bland and lacks the charm of the previous games' coloring book style.
• Not to the same extent, but some feel the name "Yoshi's New Island" is bland and unoriginal because Nintendo already used the "New" naming for their New Super Mario Bros. series of 2D platformers, and that Nintendo in general needs to stop adding the word "New" to games that act as revivals of older gameplay styles. Not helping is that it was confirmed that Nintendo once considered calling The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds "New Legend of Zelda" due to the game being a throwback to Zelda's early years. Others think it's okay becuase there's actually a "New" Yoshi's Island in the form of Egg Island.
• The fact that Yoshi's New Island's opening cancels out the original's ending by including a twist that the parents who were brought the Mario Bros. are actually not their parents at all also has the fanbase split between the people who don't mind it & find it hilarious and the people who think that this is very disrespectful of the original Yoshi's Island's ending, which was considered a Heartwarming Moment.
• Yoshi's New Island in general. Some think It's the Same, Now It Sucks!, some think it's So Okay, It's Average, and still others like it because it's a love letter to the original and not DS.
• The fact that this series gave the Mario Bros. an origin story by having them be born and raised in the Mushroom Kingdom instead of the old "Mario & Luigi are plumbers from Brooklyn, New York who took a Magic Pipe into the Mushroom Kingdom" from the movie and the cartoons. Certain fans (particularly older ones) were against this idea and thought that the Brooklyn origin made way more sense and that the Mushroom Kingdom origin had way too much Fridge Logic in it. Other fans think it's really no big deal and are perfectly okay with the Mushroom Kingdom origin (and often point out that the Brooklyn origin was made up by Nintendo of America to begin with and now of course we have New Donk City featuring in Mario Odyssey too).
• The GBA version of the original game. As with the other Super Mario Advance titles, it's either a Polished Port with creative exclusive levels, or a Porting Disaster plagued with screen crunch, washed out colors, missing graphical effects, low quality music, voice acting and decreased difficulty.

I agree with your take. I'd add to the second bullet point that it's not the trope: it's just a question posed for anyone to read and answer if they feel like it. If you're going to be a Broken Base entry, you need to be an actual example of a Broken Base, not a random question that anyone who reads it can agree or disagree with at their leisure.

This seems to be a common misuse for Broken Base: instead of describing how the base is broken, a question is posed asking if someone or some situation is 'either/or'. Either/Or questions are not the trope; they're barely above the level of a 'what if...?' discussion.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 21st 2019 at 1:50:43 PM

The only one I'll try and make a case for is the comment deletion example, since she'd apparently deleted even people simply expressing their own thoughts on her SU video, just as long as the comment disagreed with her— no matter how respectfully. I don't think that one is calling her a snowflake at all, it's just being blunt about the fact that she does indeed heavily moderate her comments and one reaction to her doing so. If anything, it should be deleted because the people who complain about that probably aren't her fans at all, not because it's accusing her of anything.

I'm pretty sure we have a rule against YMMV and Audience Reactions for creators. Per Creator Page Guidelines:

With this rule in mind, I think the entire Broken Base entry needs to go. They're clearly about the creator and not the work.

That's also fair.