Mostly agree with what is saying, but I'd like to add:

• The game's placement in the timeline as yet another interquel, as opposed to a proper sequel to III. There are fans who see this as more signs that Capcom can't get out of the II era for the sake of nostalgia (despite Street Fighter IV already being one great big homage to the series' heyday) and fear of taking risks like the initially controversial but ultimately groundbreaking III did (as indicated by Yoshinori Ono's refusal to "reboot" the series like the third installment did as long as he has directorial input). This also serves to fuel an overlying criticism that Street Fighter is too reliant on remaining stagnant. Others, however, don't really mind since the game finally resolves the Shadaloo arc, even if there are still unanswered questions from previous entries (plus a handful of new ones).
  This one says that some fans "don't really mind", therefore it's not a divisive issue, just something some people don't like and others don't care about. Even that part sneaks in some complaining by mentioning the unanswered questions.
• "Three-frame links." In most fighting games, one-frame links ^note landing the next move in a combo within 1/60th of a second are amongst the hardest things a player can do consistently. Capcom addressed that in this game by buffering the window to any link by an extra 2 frames, making the most difficult links only require 1/20th of a second. Fans of one-frame links are unhappy about this as they feel that dexterous players aren't being rewarded for their talents. A somewhat larger number of people are happy to see one-frame links gone, as this means they can now play the "true game" without a major difficulty barrier. Other fans don't care at all, or have mixed feelings (such as believing that some one-frame links should have remained, but agreeing that they got out of hand in the previous game).
  As with the one above, the "for" side doesn't care at all or has mixed feelings, indicating that it's not a love it or hate it deal.
• One of the fastest examples ever happened at the conclusion of Capcom Cup 2016. Ono revealed that Akuma would be the first character out of six for Season 2. The crowd immediately erupted into cheers...at which point Ono finished his statement by saying that the next five characters would all be completely new to Street Fighter. The cheers immediately stopped and were replaced with both optimistic clapping and passionate boos. After said even, the fandom has continued being divided on this, as while some are happy to see what new characters get released, this also guarantees at least another year where we won't see fan favorites like Blanka, Rose, or Dudley.
  As mentioned by the previous poster, this is a total knee-jerk reaction. If six months is the shortest time needed to determine whether an issue is base-breaking, a few seconds is definitely out. It's also inherently a short-term debate since it would only have lasted a season at most (if season 3 also added only new characters, maybe there'd be something to be said about the excessive focus on newcomers, but this didn't happen as S3 brought back several classic characters).

Bringing up these examples from The Flash (2014):

Season 1

• Broken Base:
  • Borders on Ship-to-Ship Combat, but the Ship Tease between Barry and Caitlin has both fans and detractors, some adoring the idea of them as a couple and finding their moments together far more enjoyable than Barry and Iris, others finding it an unfortunate reminder to how much influence the Olicity ship had on Arrow (which has caused a lot of grief for those who didn't ship the pair), or just generally finding it awkwardly written and rather annoyingly cliché for the hero's female friend to develop feelings for him rather than remain platonic.
  • For comic fans, how much the show takes from Geoff Johns' Flash work and the New 52 Flash run. Johns is heavily involved in the show's writing and production, and a number of his additions to the franchise are very apparent (particularly Barry's mom's death and the situation with his father). However, Johns' contributions are highly controversial due to how it handled Barry's character (who became a Creator's Pet for Johns) at the expense of Wally West, so the fact these aspects are present in the show burns some fans while others enjoy the show all the same due to how well they handle the contributions.

Season 2

• Broken Base: The sheer number of speedsters, potential or confirmed, that are going to be in Season Two (Jay Garrick, Wally West, Zoom, Thawne, Jesse Quick, Eliza Harmon) has some people concerned that it will be too crowded. Others, especially those who follow the comics, are happy to see the Flash Family on screen. This was lessened by the time the season ended by the fact that, of those characters, the only speedsters who actually appear as speedsters were Zoom, Reverse-Flash, and Trajectory (the latter only in a villain-of-the-week capacity while Thawne only has guest appearances); in fact, this somewhat reversed with some people feeling They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot by not having Barry working with any of the other speedsters.

Season 3

• Broken Base:
  • Savitar being the main villain for the third season. Some people are tired of yet another speedster being the Big Bad, while others don't mind and feel that speed-based villains are the best to combat Barry. Other fans are taking a middle ground, with some hoping Savitar will end up being a Disc-One Final Boss to Dr. Alchemy or another villain. "Shade" establishes that the two are working together in some capacity, though the exact nature of their partnership is unknown. Then it turns out in the following episode Alchemy is nothing more than an acolyte for Savitar, and an unwitting one at that.
  • Savitar being revealed to be a time remnant of Barry Allen who has turned evil. The fandom is torn between those who thought it was a clever twist, those who were happy to have predicted Savitar's identity correctly, and those who are disappointed that the show went with the most obvious and predictable fan theory which wasn't shocking at all. There's also further divisive opinions on whether the reveal of Savitar's true identity was an improvement to his character or made him worse. A portion of the fanbase who felt Savitar was generic and lackluster before, became interested after the reveal due to curiosity over how a future Barry Allen became Savitar. Another portion felt that making him a future Barry took away his intimidation factor of being the "God of Speed" who was really a vulnerable man underneath, though others argue that Savitar was never intimidating to begin with compared to the likes of Reverse-Flash and Zoom, and was just silly prior to the reveal.

Season 4

• Broken Base:
  • With the addition of the Council of Wells, the trend of having Tom Cavanagh portray more versions of Harrison Wells has become divisive. Some find the new Wells popping up to be amusing and creative, while others feel the joke has gotten old and tiresome. They lack the disposable side of two of their counterparts (Earths-1 and 19), but the concept of Harrison Wells is seen as putting throwaway characters. Another criticisms are that the writers are overworking Cavanagh or that they are trying too hard to keep him relevant for the series.
  • How much Barry needs Team Flash and whether he even needs them at all, especially at this stage of his superhero tenure, has become a major source of contention this season. They can generally be split into groups. Those that think the team should be disbanded argue that Barry didn't have a team in the comics, and that this one is severely limiting his opportunities to shine because they build his tech and think for him, since they all need things to do, thus preventing Barry from being as intelligent as his comic book counterpart, which is not helped by the fact that Barry is a much better scientist and detective when he is not working alongside his scientific friends. It also stifles the storytelling, since Cisco, Caitlin and Harry specifically have limited stories outside of the team so the action is always focused in S.T.A.R. Labs. Those that want to keep the team argue that this is an adaptation of the show and so a team makes sense, especially since non-Flash characters can help make the story richer. Then there are some in the middle who think the team can stay, but want it scaled back so Barry gets more focus or only certain members should be on it - but that's another Broken Base because people can't decide who they want on the team; some want characters from the comics to have priority, while others think it should be limited to just the scientists. A Vocal Minority started a campaign to bring back the "Original Team Flash", which they take to mean Barry, Cisco, Caitlin and Harry, despite him only coming in season 2. It should be noted, however, that the campaign was started by Snowbarry shippers and is strangely focused on getting rid of Iris (and Joe, sometimes) specifically, which people have noticed. And that's all we'll say about that.

So it's been three days, any chance I could get a response.

We actually vetted this page already. These are the only ones we agreed to keep already.

Ah... sorry, I just went back several pages and it appears you're right.

Although I can't seem to find anything involving the last two/Season 4 examples, were those ones checked out?

Found this on YMMV.Sega:

Considering that Atlus wasn't affected by the purchase at all, this can be cut, right?

The entry looks like it was made before or right after the purchase. Cut.

That example fails the sustained conflict requirement since Sega's purchase ended up not affecting Atlus at all, and it's just Speculative Troping that ended up being wrong. Cut.

Edited by ADrago on Oct 2nd 2018 at 5:29:40 AM

Mmmkay. Let's take a look at The Legend of Zelda

• One of the biggest, yet most subtle divides in the fandom comes from the idea of what makes a Zelda game... a Zelda game! The franchise has become more and more multi-faceted over the years, and thus different people may like it for completely different reasons. Because of this, the fans often find themselves in direct opposition to one another. Sometimes to the extreme that one element may be considered essential to the franchise by one group, but another may consider it even detrimental. The elements that are argued the most are the exploration component, the puzzle solving (especially in the dungeons), and the lore. But there are also plenty of people who will mention the ever changing art style, the story telling, the atmosphere, or even the combat system, especially the boss fights. There's even a fair share of fans who think the answer is "all of the above", and thus there is no point in trying to single out just one aspect and call it THE "Zelda secret".
  • This is definitely a thing that exists in the fandom, and should probably be mentioned on the YMMV page, but I'm unsure if it's a broken base specifically.
• Another one of the biggest, and this time, most visible ones is that every single entry of the series ever since Ocarina of Time (if not even earlier than that) has received accusations of It's the Same, Now It Sucks! and They Changed It, Now It Sucks! at the same time. One second you find a comment trashing the game for not changing the Zelda formula at all, demeaning its new features as "gimmicks", and the next second you find another one that trashes it because those "gimmicks" are new features that totally change (and ruin) the Zelda formula. Yahtzee even managed to do both in one review, bashing Skyward Sword for being formulaic, then for not holding to its own formulas.
  • I'm not even sure what sides this is trying to establish. It just looks like complaining about complaining. I say cut.
• The fans are also divided on whether Cel Shading or "realism" is better for the series.
  • While most people have their preferences, they're generally okay with both styles. I say cut.
• Fans and critics frequently argue about which game in the series is the best, often escalating to arguments where (insert game X here) is dismissed as "absolute crap" while (insert game Y here) is objectively the greatest game of all time. This is despite the fact that almost all major Zelda games are loved by critics and well-received by the general public.
  • This explicitly says that most critics and people think a majority of games are at least "good" and only a vocal minority in the fandom would consider certain games "absolute crap." CUT.
• The four Zelda re-releases released during the 3DS/Wii U era. Did they change too much or too little? Were they a good way to fill in the long gap between console Zelda games or were they partially responsible for that gap to begin with?
  • Too minor an issue. While all of the re-releases have their differences that make people prefer one over the other, there aren't really any heated arguments. Cut.
• Since The Wind Waker, one of the most prominent debates, not only in the fan base, but also among critics, is whether the franchise should feature voice acting. Even after Breath of the Wild revealed that it was going to bring it to franchise at last, the debate was far from over. The two opposing forces are:
  • Those who think the franchise should not feature voice acting at all. They argue the franchise hasn't used them for so long, they would feel out of place at this point. They also think it's better to leave the characters' voices to the player's imagination. Plus, it would mean either giving Link a voice (which would destroy one of the key characteristics that makes him unique) or make all characters speak except him (which for them would be extremely weird). There's also the concern about localization, and what would it mean to dub the game to the different languages. But there are people who say the solution to this would be for Nintendo to create a fictional "Hyrulean" language, akin to the gibberish that characters like Midna or Fi have already displayed.
  • Those who think they should totally use them. They argue the lack of voices makes the games feel outdated, and it's detrimental to the immersion. Especially considering the modern entries in the franchise use cut-scenes prominently, where the lack of voices becomes especially jarring. As for the issue about Link, most people in this camp usually propose to keep him silent (which is the approach Breath of the Wild takes), arguing that it wouldn't be nearly as weird as people in the opposing side makes it out to be. Others claim that, even if they gave Link a voice, that wouldn't need to destroy his character, since there has been already a successful attempt of giving him a more fleshed out personality in the manga by Akira Himekawa, which has been embraced by most of the fan base.
    • Not sure.
• Do the Zelda franchise and Link himself truly deserve to be Nintendo's biggest Sacred Cows among their series and characters respectively? There are those who agree, hence their popularity in the first place, and then there are those who view them with Hype Backlash and Hype Aversion (especially given how frequently Zelda games and characters win in fan rankings and popularity polls); in the series' case, many acclaimed Zelda games suffer from Seinfeld Is Unfunny down the line.
  • If this is an issue, it sounds more like something in the "Nintendo" fanbase, and not the "Zelda" fanbase. Cut.
• The "Should Link be allowed to be a girl?" debate. The idea had been around for a while in the early 2010s, but it was only proposed by a small and quite minority. Things changed with the E3 2014 reveal trailer of The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, which showed a Link that looked more androgynous than usual, to the point that it created a massive Viewer Gender Confusion. After that, and the confirmation that this Link was indeed a male, the debate jumped to the forefront of the fandom, with all different kinds of opinions on the matter.
  • This issue came and went, and now only a vocal minority cares. cut
• To a lesser degree, the Hero Mode. Supporters welcome the addition and consider the difficulty boost the franchise needed and forces the player to be more careful during combat and plan ahead better their healing resources. Detractors think it's just cheap Fake Difficulty, since only damage is increased while enemy AI and layout remain unchanged, and thus consider the mode meaningless.
  • Cut. Even the people who don't like hero mode acknowledge that other people do, and that adding it doesn't take anything away.
• The games in the series released from 2006 to 2011 (Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, Skyward Sword and Spirit Tracks) are noted for being particularly and consistently divisive among fans, and generally for the same reasons among all of them (even though all of them received high marks from reviewers as well as sales). Detractors of the era cite issues like arbitrary padding, tired storytelling, low difficulty, poor item usage, and poor art design choices. Fans of the era defend these games by citing highlights like the greater focus on story, conveying richer characters and lore, creative ideas for items, and interesting mechanics stemming from the unique features of the Wii and DS. There's little middle ground for this period of the series.
  • First, Phantom Hourglass specifically is generally considered on the lower end of the series, and very rarely gets listed among people's favorites like the other games mentioned.
  • Second, and more importantly, Zelda is one of those franchises where I can easily believe that a substantial amount of the fanbase likes every game to at least some extent. We might strongly prefer our personal favorites over our least favorites, but the saying "there's no such thing as a bad Zelda game" exists for a reason. Even the previously mentioned Phantom Hourglass has plenty of people who think it's a decent game, if a little plain and simple with too much backtracking. The only game that might really be that divisive is Skyward Sword. So plenty of middle ground here.

Edited by mrbits on Oct 3rd 2018 at 6:28:12 AM

On the whole, yeah, most people think Zelda games are at least decent. Also, most of the "Broken Base" is about people liking to complain about the newest game, while talking up the previous game. That's less of a broken base, and more of a shifting opinion. Which also still mostly covers the vocal minority.

Most fans, to my knowledge, are more or less indifferent about voice acting. It's not a big thing for everyone.

Removed this from YMMV.Goblin Slayer for being a short-lived pre-release speculation:

• After the announcement of an anime adaptation (and indeed before it), some arguments have erupted over whether it would or should include the graphic instances of goblin rape the manga added, and if it didn't; would it be for the better of the story's tone, or an unacceptable censorious move no matter how it's justified?
  • As of the first episode, the anime seems to be more in line with the Light Novel, with the rape happening off screen.

I think the other entries on that page might also be misuse:

• In regards to the manga adaptations; the artists of the main manga and Year One included some extensive and detailed sequences of young women being gangbanged by goblin marauders in their opening chapters. These scenes set a tone for the story that some people found completely intolerable, and debates about the necessity of those scenes were constant. Some detractors went on to write the entire story off as just one big female-character-victimizing-fest, despite the fact that rape is never shown in such a direct or protracted manner again beyond the first chapters of each of those works. Speaking of the dialing down of the sexual violence; certain creeps like to complain, either ironically and unironically, that the near-absence of explicit rape in later chapters of the story was a downturn in their eyes.
• Some see Goblin Slayer's tricks, tactics & willingness to show consequences of other groups' impractical methods as refreshingly professional, practical & realistic. Other readers criticize the series as having double standards on realism on the same grounds, arguing why said impractical methods exist if they're so ineffective, and why so few characters are shown to adopt more pragmatic options like Goblin Slayer.^Example Some question if the lack of helms or head protection among many of the higher ranks imply that more dangerous enemies inexplicably don’t attack unprotected heads like goblins do. Granted high level monsters depicted like the Ogre or Beholder would kill someone with a headshot regardless of a helmet due to the strength or magical ability.Or, they question Goblin Slayer himself, criticizing his choice of helmet and/or his tactics to be just as impractical. To be fair, however, the series IS only focused on killing goblins, not other types of mythological fare, so there's few comparative outliers. Though some complaints are more general and would still be raised regardless.

First point seems to be Complaining About People Not Liking the Show, also not a fan of how it calls a portion of the fanbase "creeps". Second point mostly sounds like complaining about unrealistic aspects of the show, and also seems to be a pretty weak argument (though I'm not very familiar with the fandom so I can't say for sure).

Agreed. Go ahead and cut away.

These were recently added to the main Broken Base page:

* Six months after release at the time of writing, the question of whether The Last Jedi was a good film or not continues to divide the fanbase, to the point that discussion surrounding the release of Solo has often been overshadowed by discussion of the last movie, and many fans have reportedly boycotted it entirely based on that film's reception. The most heated discussions centre around whether the film was too comedic compared to previous Star Wars films, how characters from the Original Trilogy (especially Luke Skywalker) were treated, and whether a "social justice agenda" was present in the movie courtesy of Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy. The character of Rose Tico is another point of contention: the vitriol surrounding her escalated to the point that the actress who plays her, Kelly Marie Tran, had to leave social media after harassment.

All I know is that the Star Wars fandom is one of those that are so contentious, it's actually easier to list what fans agree about.

Cut this fron Goblin Slayer: There is a continuous, long-running debate, even amongst people who actually like the series, over whether or not the presentation of goblins and the response to their threat level actually makes logical sense. Many people cite the implausibility of goblins being "brushed off" so casually by the other civilizations as a major reason (besides the overwhelming Grimdark) why they could not get into the series.

My reasoning is that the anime adaptation was only recently aired and I think we need to wait six more months after it finishes.

The manga and light novels have been out for years though.

Edited by miraculous on Oct 12th 2018 at 2:13:17 AM

Goblin Slayer has been a light novel and manga long before the anime started airing. If this entry was about the anime specifically, it'd be incorrect, but it seems to be describing a sentiment that exists within the LN/manga's fandom.

Edited by Zuxtron on Oct 12th 2018 at 5:16:57 AM

Well, I'm not sure if this information will be useful but here's this tally by site and medium:

Light Novel

• Animeplanet: 4.438 out of 5 stars
  • 140 reading
  • 173 want to read
  • 18 stalled
  • 11 dropped
  • 46 won't read
• MyAnimeList: 8.30

Manga:

• AnimePlanet: 4.426 out of 5 stars
  • 1,552 reading
  • 389 want to read
  • 75 stalled
  • 39 dropped
  • 18 won't read
• MyAnimeList: 8.16

75 Non-fans(57 if you exclude people who stalled) for the light novel vs. 313 fans(Including those wanting to read) doesn't sound like it's enough for a broken base entry.

Same goes for 132 non-fans(57 if you exclude those who stalled) vs 1941 fans(Including those wanting to read).

Well, you have to take into account that not everyone uses these sites, and even among those who do, they might not bother adding this specific work to their list of disliked LN/manga (instead preferring to only add the manga they do enjoy).

Although after looking at your original post again, the entry you cut could still be considered misuse since it focuses entirely on those who find the work unrealistic and implausible, and doesn't explain the position of those who do think the story makes sense.

I remember a similar situation with the Cells at Work anime dealing with Cancer Cell. While the arc happen long before the anime started, i was told to cut it since it was added during the anime adaptation.

I deleted Broken Base example of YMMV.Final Fantasy Brave Exvius awhile backing dealing with the Lapis Wheel which is a recent addition. Like only a couple weeks as of this writing. I did cite the 6 month rule for my reason. Troper smeezus readded back with this reason:

(credit for Lapis Wheel to 32_Footsteps) The 6-month rule shouldn't be a hard and fast rule. FFBE's only a 2-year-old game - the 7-star system is only 3 months into Global's life, and Sephiroth's step-up is still hotly debated 5 months later. I'll keep in mind that it should be more long-term but I certainly feel like this belongs here.

I asked this question in Ask the Troper and a replied did believe ot should be deleted. But i was referred here to make sure the examples be deleted.

Edited by WhirlRX on Oct 13th 2018 at 2:59:35 PM

So it's been 5 days, any chance I could get a response to the examples I brought up above x8.

BrokenBase.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic:

• Nowadays, fans generally agree that Friendship Is Magic is in an odd position. With the show now eight seasons in (with a ninth on the way), fans have reached a general consensus. Similar to other shows of its kind. While it remains debatable whether or not Friendship Is Magic has declined in quality, the show is definitely past its prime, and accepted that a show as limited as it is, it was going to run into repetition eventually. As long as it remains enjoyable, it's still okay.
• Of course, this created new debates as to where some fans draw the line between Friendship Is Magic's Prime years and the current era. Some draw the line at Season 3^note Twilight's Ascension to Alicornhood, others at Season 4^note Golden Oaks Library is destroyed, Twilight gets a new castle and the title of Princess of Friendship, and another group at the end of Season 5^note Starlight Glimmer's Heel–Face Turn and gets added to the cast.

The above seems too one-sided to be a BB. The lower part might be valid.

I call it onesided.

The first entry is too one-sided, though keep the second one since the point a series began to decline, or if at all, is a common debate within many fandoms.

This was added back to Secret of Mana:

• Broken Base:
  • The Video Game Remake released in 2018. From the Art Shift to Super-Deformed character models with big heads and small bodies, to the low budget put into the actual assets and polish combined with rather low-effort voice acting, to the hit-or-miss soundtrack split between 14 different composers (including Kikuta himself returning), every single element of the remake splits the fanbase one way or another.
  • There's also the opinion of whether or not the remake should've taken the effort to try to add what had been lost when the SNES-CD plans fell through and the game got downsized significantly^note This is also assuming that the original designs/script/code base have not been lost over the past 25 years., or if it's perfectly fine with just trying to adapt the game as it was.

I'm pretty sure it was cut for not portraying both sides of the fandom equally.