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TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#226: Jul 12th 2019 at 8:54:17 AM

So, I was wondering. If Robin is so smart, how come she is not in College?

First of all, same reason Will isn't in school. It's summer.

Setting that aside, if Robin isn't attending a college when it's not summer, there could be any number of reasons for that. Chief among them, money and motivation. College is a) expensive and b) optional.

EDIT: Want to note that I appreciated the Drama-Preserving Handicap that Eleven suffered this season. I like El, but both seasons one and two ended on "And then Eleven psychics the monster to death." She's pretty much the protagonists' "I win" button. And there's nothing wrong with that but. Like. Horror.

"Eleven can handle it" has become a fairly reliable standby. But horror's about taking away that kind of security. There's a reason The World's Expert (on Getting Killed) is a thing. So it was a refreshing change of pace for Eleven's powers to burn out just in time for the big fight with the Meat Flayer, forcing the cast to get creative.

I don't expect her powers are gone for good. It sets up her arc for the next season. If anything, Eleven's now primed for a climactic return to form down the road. But it was still a nice deviation from formula.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 12th 2019 at 10:05:29 AM

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Zeromaeus Mighty No. 51345 from Neo Arcadia Since: May, 2010
Mighty No. 51345
#227: Jul 12th 2019 at 11:22:23 AM

Its a good in to have other powered characters come in without Eleven to counter them.

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire
dmcreif from Novi Grad, Sokovia Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Robosexual
#228: Jul 12th 2019 at 12:11:20 PM

Eleven without her powers also is a good thing in the sense that it forces the writers to start dealing with writing plots that revolve more around Eleven's mental strengths rather than her physical ones. That way the writing and fandom won't define Eleven too largely by her powers.

The cold never bothered me anyway
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#229: Jul 12th 2019 at 2:53:48 PM

I loved this season so much. I watched it in two chunks with my mom, and we were both riveted to the seat. Every single plotline was so strong, it was amazingly consistent in how all the plot threads were equally engaging and impactful. Easily the best Stranger Things season yet.

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#230: Jul 12th 2019 at 4:02:40 PM

Mmm, I don't know about "best". The Russians didn't really click with me. Like, Hopper and Joyce struggling with the Terminator was intense and suspenseful, but I had a lot of trouble buying into four hapless children persistently outsmarting and outmaneuvering the military and scientific might of the Soviet Union.

Like. Steve's honestly become one of my favorite characters since he became the party's unofficial babysitter. Robin's a great new character. Dustin's fun. Erica's annoying but she's the annoying kid sister archetype so it fits, and she got some great moments - can't smell America without Erica. [lol]

But pretty much the entire time the kids were down in the secret Russian facility, I was rolling my eyes. That the entire Russian contingent present at this site couldn't handle these four dumbass kids strained suspension of disbelief a bit much - especially when juxtaposed with the really cool and suspenseful Terminator bits.

Season two's my pick for best season. It introduced Max and Billy, brought the really awesome Mind Flayer into the show, gave us some much-needed development on Eleven's story, turned Steve from one of the worst characters to one of the best, etc.

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indigoJay from The Astral Plane Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#231: Jul 12th 2019 at 4:48:37 PM

[up] In the series about psychic monsters from another dimensions, some dumb Russians were the most unbelievable addition.

Seriously, though, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that the Russians were not expecting some kids to build a really big radio, crack their code, and invade their underground facility, and therefore were not on alert for intruders.

The Russian lab might not have been my favourite part of the season, but given that it gave us Alexei and his friendship with Murray, I really didn't mind too much.

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#232: Jul 12th 2019 at 5:06:03 PM

Oh, Alexei and Murray were great. Pretty much every part of Joyce and Hopper's portion of the Russian story was fantastic. I especially liked how strong and dangerous the Terminator was. Every time he showed up, it felt like Joyce and Hopper were desperately flailing just to not die.

I similarly didn't have any problem with Dustin receiving the Russian signal or the Scoops team decoding it. It's really just the part where the kids were in the Soviet facility that didn't work for me. They have an invulnerable murder-assassin beating the shit out of Hopper every episode, and yet not one person in the massive underground military facility can grab an overweight 12-year-old?

Also, Mythbusters ruined Air-Vent Passageway shenanigans for me forever. [lol] "Why, Thor, God of Thunder is trying to enter my building!"

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 12th 2019 at 6:09:10 AM

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#233: Jul 12th 2019 at 5:42:27 PM

So I honestly thought Eleven losing her powers was the result of the Meat Flayer's bite. Like, that was the payoff for all those chemicals it made the Flayed drink. It created some kind of anti-psyche juice that it infected her with. Because this thing was supposedly created entirely to counter Eleven, I just assumed it had those kinds of counter measures. Is that not correct?

Edited by GNinja on Jul 12th 2019 at 12:43:59 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#234: Jul 12th 2019 at 6:03:07 PM

They don't really say what caused it. But given that the preceding episodes featured so much fretting over Eleven using her powers more than usual, I assumed she psychically overextended or something and burnt her powers out.

I'm sure we'll find out more in season four.

They also never explained what the chemical-eating was about, but I figured the chemicals were responsible for converting the hosts' bodies into that mobile flesh goop that made up the Meat Flayer's body.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 12th 2019 at 7:12:07 AM

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GNinja The Element of Hyperbole. from The deepest, darkest corner of his mind. Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
The Element of Hyperbole.
#235: Jul 12th 2019 at 6:14:05 PM

One aspect of the two of them that I find interesting is that the Mind Flayer seems to be more telepathically powerful than Eleven. Like, if it comes down to a purely mental encounter he has the edge. But she has the advantage when it comes to telekinesis, and making physical use of her mental powers.

Edited by GNinja on Jul 12th 2019 at 1:15:50 PM

Kaze ni Nare!
Zeromaeus Mighty No. 51345 from Neo Arcadia Since: May, 2010
Mighty No. 51345
#236: Jul 13th 2019 at 3:33:50 AM

I was also under the impression that the chemicals were to counter Eleven's powers. That the last thing she used her powers on was to remove the piece of the mind-flayer from her leg and that it took so much effort for her to do so just reinforced that to me.

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#237: Jul 13th 2019 at 1:41:45 PM

Im with tobias about the russians and I feel they are left down compare to hawkings lab in how they are build: the lab have this sort of misterious aura around in that you arent quite sure what they are into but they are powerfull.

The russian on the other hand is MIGHTY SOVIET RUSSIA, including all the damn cliche about them, it does really clash with the atmosphere of the show.

Now with the rest of the season: Hopper does feel it took a level in jerkassery blunty display is authority around mike and lying to Joyce, while Joyce should have call hopper and not let down that way.

Also im not sold at all in nancy and jonathan, I find is subplot boring and sandwich between Dustin spy aventure and kids drama, not surprising the whole thing come to and end when is boss get flayed.

Now while i dont like the inflitration of soviet base for all the suspetion of disbelief reasons, Steven continues to be the best when chararterization is concerned, really I feel he have suprass nancy and jonathan about being a likable and intersting chararter.

about the rest....Im meh, dustin and her girlfriend are cute, lucas and max are whatever for me as couple and more intersting as friend of El and Mike(really they pretty much start the mess in the first place), I dont know what to think of Billy and Murray and Alexei are gold.

Edited by unknowing on Jul 13th 2019 at 5:09:20 AM

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
ZheToralf Floating Advice Reminder from somewhere in Germany Since: Dec, 2009
Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#239: Jul 26th 2019 at 7:04:52 AM

[up]That is wonderful.

In fact the only thing that Hopper didn’t do that I wanted him to was to raid the Russian compound while going full Commando. Alas, that part was more realistic.

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#240: Jul 29th 2019 at 7:28:47 AM

Eh, I wouldn't have been able to take Hopper going full Commando seriously. He's a frumpy small-town sheriff. One of the best things about season three was how thoroughly outmatched and desperate he and Joyce were whenever the Obvious Terminator showed up.

Like, they make it pretty clear that Hopper is 100% out of his league against this guy. Deadly Soviet Military Assassin >>> Frumpy Small-Town Sheriff.

It was hard enough to buy Hopper overpowering the Terminator down in the lab - especially with that cheesy Pre-Mortem One-Liner they gave him. Holy f*ck, who thought that was a good idea?

Hopper suddenly turning into John Rambo would have been much too much.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 29th 2019 at 8:29:27 AM

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Xopher001 Since: Jul, 2012
#241: Jul 29th 2019 at 9:29:07 AM

After mulling it over for a few weeks, I feel more like this season was a step down in quality compared to the first two. The writers lean way to hard into 80s nostalgia it becomes annoying. I rly doubt everyone unanimously agreed Back to the Future was a great movie - we have the benefit of hindsight, but a lot of movies are appreciated more long after they premier. In the past two seasons it was more subtle, but the show seems to resemble more and more a standard Hollywood version of the 80s. Sometimes it also feels like they think that nostalgia jusyifies using tired tropes from the 80s, such as all of Hoppers antics, which he sees no come-uppance for, or the evil Russians trope being played completely straight. I didn't like the coca cola product placement either. Product placement is oke when its not in your face, but that one scene (you know the one) was completely out of place and I felt dragged the quality of the show down with it I'm not sure how all of this is gonna be handled in the later seasons - it looks like the Russians are still going to be important going forward, but it'd be interesting to know in what way behind being stock bad guys - maybe there's an arms race in developing weapons based on the upside down , or maybe the collapse of the Soviet Union causes the Demogorgon the Russians have to fall into the hands of the mob - that would be really interestijg!

Edited by Xopher001 on Jul 29th 2019 at 7:29:32 PM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#242: Jul 29th 2019 at 10:48:48 AM

For me, the show basically should have ended at the first season. It's clear the formulaic reliance on 80's nostalgia has a expiration date. Season 2 was a step down. Season 3 is better and actually quite good, but the first is still better.

Quite liked season 3 though, as I said. The bigger downsides were Hopper being a raging asshole in the early season being basically unaddressed, Eleven and Mike's relationship being absolutely unbearable and the show's cartoonish take on soviets ("it's a homage to the 80's!" only goes so far) plus season-long love letter to capitalism (I was straight up thrown off by the sequence where Eleven's individualization is directly linked by her power to buy things set to "Material Girl").

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#243: Jul 29th 2019 at 11:49:03 AM

The Cosmonaut Variety Hour also feels like season one should have been the last of the show, though for different reasons.

TobiasDrake Queen of Good Things, Honest (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
Queen of Good Things, Honest
#244: Jul 29th 2019 at 11:56:07 AM

Season two is my favorite, personally.

I don't have an issue with the Russian plotline on paper. The Cold War was still happening during the 80's. If the show was set in Russia, I wouldn't be too shocked to see American spies as a plot point either. So I'm fine with there being Russian spies.

I actually really appreciated Alexei in particular for just being this chill dude. He's an evil Russian scientist except no, he's not, he's just a dude with a job. He likes to watch cartoons and drink cherry milkshakes. He would also very much like to not die for his country, thank you very much, that is not what he wanted out of life when he signed on. He does science for Russia 'cause he's a science dude who was geographically born in Russia.

He's not a devoted minion of doom. He's just some guy. The only reason he's involved in this conflict is because he's some guy on the other side of the prolonged U.S./Russia conflict. And the way they turn him is fantastic; Joyce (and Hopper under protest) gets him to relate to his captors. To engage with them as relatable people and not scary "THE ENEMY" bogeymen.

They forego the Jack Bauer torture method. Instead, they give him milkshakes and watch cartoons with him and shit. They make him want to help his new friends more than he wants to escape back to his old life. That is some real spy shit, right there. That is exactly how you break a suspect, and it's rare to see in media.

So. Yeah. All the stuff with Alexei was great.

Where the Russian stuff lost me was just the scale of it all. The colossal underground facility packed with Russian scientists and soldiers was a bit hard to buy, and the scale of it took me out of the story. Like, it was just too big for our cast of protagonists. At the end of the day, Steve Barrington was never going to punch out the might of the Russian Army, y'know?

From the moment Team Scoops Ahoy arrived in the giant facility, my suspension of disbelief made an immediate kneejerk reaction of "NOPE! I'm out! Peace!" This wasn't, "Oh no, how will our heroes defeat this foe?" This was, "No, f*ck you, our heroes DO NOT defeat this foe. It is complete bullshit that the Russians don't immediately capture them all right here and now."

And it remained complete bullshit all the way to Joyce and Hopper destroying the Space Magic LHC and re-closing the rift.

Now, what would have worked for me would have been if a) we didn't have that whole sequence of Team Scoops Ahoy repeatedly thwarting the Soviet military in their own base and b) if they'd beaten the Russians by getting the Meat Flayer to attack them, pitting one unstoppable nemesis against the other and taking advantage of the opportunity it creates to shut down the Space Magic LHC. To me, that'd have made sense.

But as it is, I just couldn't buy into the Russian lab. The problem is not that the Russians are the bad guys. The problem is that they're presented as useless idiots who couldn't capture their own assholes with both hands.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 29th 2019 at 12:57:41 PM

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VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#245: Jul 29th 2019 at 3:15:37 PM

I liked season 2 better when it was season 1.

Beatman1 Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
#246: Jul 29th 2019 at 5:41:09 PM

Admittedly my enjoyment of the idea of Hopper trying to go full Commando was because the series was otherwise playing so many ideas out of Invasion U.S.A. (1985) straight I half expected Chuck Norris’ rocket armed motorcycle to show up. I also feel like he would, then realize it would be suicide and wait for help.

Edited by Beatman1 on Jul 29th 2019 at 8:41:59 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#247: Jul 29th 2019 at 5:57:10 PM

There are ways to do cold war espionage without turning it into a farce, really. Even because the show is moving to the tail end of the 80's, when the cold war is grinding down to a halt and the Soviet Union is nearing its imminent collapse, so it's fairly ridiculous when you have a Soviet army infiltrating America to use eldritch creatures to destroy it without any further explanation on themselves.

Even Alexei, whose character I enjoyed, is the Token Good Teammate side-by-side with the emotionally stunted Russian Terminator and a Torture Technician. And Alexei, the token good teammate of the Soviets, is still portrayed in a very child-like manner (liking sugary sweets and Looney Tunes) and mysteriously the only one of them who drops Socialism at the first sign of trouble and gleefully embraces capitalism.

Alexei is even the centerpiece of one of this season's cringiest moments, which involves Hopper's friend likening American freedom and capitalism to the rigged carnival games at the fair where everyone seemingly has equal odds to succeed but its allo actually rigged in the favor of a select few. Only Alexei, shortly thereafter, wins a bear fair and square, implicitly proving the American Dream is real.

It's just bizarre, really.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#248: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:15:39 AM

... the whole carnival scene was just strange. Like, literally no one acted like anything resembling a human being.

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indigoJay from The Astral Plane Since: Dec, 2018 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#249: Jul 30th 2019 at 6:23:45 AM

[up] In fairness: when has Murray ever acted like a real human being?

There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
Zeromaeus Mighty No. 51345 from Neo Arcadia Since: May, 2010
Mighty No. 51345
#250: Jul 31st 2019 at 6:32:31 AM

I liked the carnival scene. It was the lull in the horror movie where the audience knows everything is going to go wrong, but none of the characters can see it.

Mega Man fanatic extraordinaire

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