Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:
- The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
- Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.
Let's go!
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM
Reflecting on the Dan Schneider entry
, what should we do with it? Cut it or rewrite it somewhat differently?
Edited by DukeNukem4ever on Jul 13th 2025 at 12:04:17 PM
'Prolly cut. Dan as a person has massively fallen from grace, but people didn't retroactively decide he and his works were always bad. People still enjoy things like Drake and Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly, hell, Henry Danger had a whole ass TikTok fandom and modern movie. The real issue is that Dan's scummy backstage behavior became public knowledge — that's not people retroactively changing their opinion, it's horrible stuff that always existed and is just known about now.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 13th 2025 at 3:13:29 PM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI would add an addendum about Hetalia, but won't advocating adding it: I agree that it still has fans, but Hetalia is simply a victim of Values Dissonance in part of the portrayal of the history stuff in terms of growing awareness of harmful stereotypes in the mid-New '10s and New '20s and in part due to the growing need to portray history as accurate as it is. But I agree that Hetalia still has fans, but in a decreasing way due to the aforementioned problems.
Edit: Forgot to add one thing, but I am responsible of adding Polandball part before it got edited due to the fact that Hetalia is a big factor as for why Polandball exists...and most within the Polandball community considered Hetalia a joke nowadays due to its perceived wholesomeness and other stuff.
Edited by PrinceMalty on Jul 14th 2025 at 8:00:11 AM
I feel like Savile is a lot closer to genuine CbH than Schneider because his exposure actually had huge ramifications both for the works that he starred in (which largely wound up either banned or recut to exclude his presence) and in the real world (with his absolutely massive headstone being demolished and leaving his grave unmarked). However, I will agree that it is still very thorny regardless.
Sincerely, LumberwoodJust anecdotally, I have heard plenty of people describe finding Saville more annoying than funny and claiming he seemed more popular with adults than the kids he was marketed towards before his exposure, so I don't get the impression his works are still beloved or fondly remembered like Schnieder's shows. His charity work seemed to given him more of a good reputation than his actual works did.
Edited by Shedlessguy on Jul 14th 2025 at 6:51:28 AM
I think most people look at his works nowadays with horror, as most realize that a lot of them were likely used to find more victims.
Saville's a unique case, as he's probably one of the few people who everyone has turned against. Most celebrities with such accusations have some supporters, but there's no one who will defend Saville
Yeah. I agree on keeping Saville. Him being having the most rare cases where public opinion took a 180 once crimes overshadowed everything that Saville did not only to the fans, but for the entirety of the United Kingdom as a whole who viewed him as some sort of an comedic, everyman who is genuinely helping children fulfill their dreams.
Now, what about Steven Seagal as well?
Edit: ![]()
Maybe that's for the British middle class and not to the British lower classes, those in need and other fans such as music fans (after all, Saville hosted an show featuring music charts) where he is basically an icon due to his being an everyman (he is an miner before he got a job as an radio anchor), a British Cool Old Guy persona and a person that made every children's dreams a reality before his terrible crimes got exposed.
Edited by PrinceMalty on Jul 14th 2025 at 8:58:45 AM
Okay, I myself agree with Savile staying since he seems like a special case. Same can be said about Seagal, in my opinion.
But there are some other real life people listed as CBH, such as Cosby (though he could fall in the same niche as Savile) and MC Hammer, among others. Could they fit under certain CBH criteria?
I would keep Savile, Seagal, and Cosby as examples since all of them heavily and, in many cases, irrevocably tainted the reception and legacy of their works, thus leading to them being condemned.
I'm ambivalent on MC Hammer, though, especially since many of his songs are still popular and well-liked amongst people (such as "U Can't Touch This" and "2 Legit 2 Quit").
Sincerely, LumberwoodAlso agree with keeping Saville at least as condemned.
Edit to add: Was Seagal's fall from grace that drastic for him to count, though?
I think there used to be a Fandom Rivalry involving Steven Seagal and Chuck Norris, with various Chuck Norris facts portraying Steven as a Memetic Loser as well. Maybe it's a sign that Steven Seagal always had detractors.
Edited by TMH-Sir-Iron-Vomit on Jul 16th 2025 at 11:02:38 AM
Oo oo ah ahMy understanding with Seagal is that his whole filmography has fallen in people's views, and not just from what we know of him. His fighting is unconvincing and his cocky hero attitude doesn't appeal. Only the first few are still well regarded, and that is put down to others' contributions.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.Does World of Warcraft's artifacts system belong in Video Games? It is a specific gameplay mechanic which seems to be a Scrappy Mechanic, but WOW itself is far from condemned, nor is the Legion expansion that introduced it.
I really don't fit they should be there. Aside from being a single mechanic in a single game (and I'm pretty sure other MMOs still have similar setups), I remember the complaints starting very early. Many were skeptical as soon as it was announced. I also think much of the dislike was not about the Artifact item itself and its empowering, but about having to constantly return to the same place, taking away from the feeling of a wandering adventurer. Shadowlands had an empowering mechanic not tied to gear but which was perhaps worse in its fettering of play.
I contest Sonic 4: Episode I's CBH entry.
- Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I, while never particularly popular with fans, was widely praised by critics at the time for being a console Sonic game that returned to the franchise's 2D roots after years of poorly received 3D Sonic games. Much like Secret Rings, it also received praise for focusing solely on Sonic and Dr. Eggman (something fans tired of the franchise's expansive cast also approved of). As years went on, many of the better-faith fan criticisms, such as the awkward physics and disjointed, setpiece-focused level design, would come to the forefront of discussions of the game. The much better-received Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations would also ensure that Episode II, despite generally being considered a superior follow-up, reviewed noticeably worse than the first. The final nail in the Sonic 4 series' coffin came with the release of Sonic Mania, which succeeded in replicating the Genesis classics in all the ways 4 didn't. note
The entry itself outright admits that a lot of fans have been critical of the game from the beginning, and I remember this being true. Dissonance between fans and critics doesn't sound like "widely loved" to me. The entry also makes the inverse misstep that Vindicated by History entries often make, where it claims that a better game being released later makes Sonic 4: Episode I look worse in hindsight. Cut?
Edited by HMSaph on Jul 16th 2025 at 7:06:40 PM
Also, the game wasn't "widely praised" at release from what I'm seeing, most reviews were only moderately positive and there was always sharp criticism for the game's physics engine, so it went from like a 7/10 to a 5/10 to most people. Agree with a cut.
- In the early '90s, MC Hammer was one of the biggest rap stars in the world, with his 1990 album Please Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em selling ten million records — the first rap album to ever accomplish that feat — and his song "U Can't Touch This" becoming a sensation. A big part of Hammer's success was that he was considered a family-friendly alternative to the edgier and/or raunchier rap music of the day since he made it a point to keep his music fairly clean. However, as discussed
by The Rap Critic, there soon came three factors that derailed Hammer's success. First, the Gangsta Rap boom caused MC Hammer to switch his sound in order to stay relevant, taking on a more hardcore persona that was more in line with the gangsta rappers of the day. This not only ruined the clean and wholesome image that Hammer had cultivated, but failed to appeal to a new crowd, since hip-hop fans viewed him as a trend-chasing poser and didn't buy this street-wise hustler act for an instant. Second, Hammer was massively overexposed — rivals like LL Cool J were dissing Hammer for what they saw as over-the-top commercialization, which included his Saturday-Morning Cartoon Hammerman, where the main character was voiced not by Hammer himself, but rather by a different person. Thirdly, his habit of sampling and dragging out his songs through re-singing the same chorus lines had outstayed its welcome, with "2 Legit 2 Quit" being among the worst offenders. Finally, he single-handedly redefined the phrase "Conspicuous Consumption" for Generation X — he bought massive mansions, multiple cars, thoroughbred racehorses, and gold chains for his dogs, and kept an entourage that ballooned to nearly 200 people. He had to file for bankruptcy in 1996 as a result of this overspending, and he remains a symbol of living beyond one's means. By 1997, MC Hammer had all but vanished from mainstream attention, known only as a washed-up punchline with "U Can't Touch This" as a One-Hit Wonder despite having had several other hit singles, some of which charted higher. Todd in the Shadows posits in his review of The Funky Headhunter that Hammer probably could have made a comeback if he had just laid low until the late '90s when similarly family-friendly rapper Will Smith began to gain popularity in the wake of Gangsta Rap, and later discusses in his Song vs. Song podcast that Hammer still has some supporters within the hip-hop community.
The last part defeats the entire entry, but even if it weren't there wasn't, people still like U Can't Touch This, 2 Legit, and even a good chunk of the Funky Head Hunter is the opposite trope.
Cut?

I'm also not really sure about Hetalia, I still sometimes see fans around. Most of them seem to be of the fujoshi type rather than focused on weird politics. Back in the day the political stuff was definitely more common from what I remember, but that aspect doesn't seem as common anymore. Regardless, I wouldn't say that Hetalia as a whole has been condemned.
Prequel apologist | I like fixing up YMMV and Trivia pages.