TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Condemned by History cleanup thread

Go To

Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4201: Jun 18th 2025 at 10:01:15 PM

[up][up] Even offensiveness I'd call iffy, if only because to be CBH it'd have to have a fandom first, and such a fandom would potentially have liked it in the first place because of or in spite of these things (and thus wouldn't turn on it over time). But that's off-topic tbh.

We can cut the entry, there's a lot of agreement here.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 18th 2025 at 1:02:09 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#4202: Jun 19th 2025 at 1:52:47 AM

On the literature page, someone posted this:

  • Back in the day of its publication, Charles Dickens' The Old Curiosity Shop quite successful. The excitement surrounding the conclusion of the series was unprecedented; Dickens fans were reported to have stormed the piers in New York City, shouting to arriving sailors (who might have already read the final chapters in the United Kingdom), "Is Little Nell alive?", to the point of some people comparing it to the excitement towards the publication of the last Harry Potter book in 2007. Nowadays, however, it would hardly be considered one of Dickens' best works, with the Lighter and Softer anime adaptation being more fondly remembered than the book.

There are no reasons as of why the novel fell out of favor, and honestly sounds more like Adaptation Displacement than outright CBH.

Edited by DukeNukem4ever on Jun 19th 2025 at 1:53:02 AM

DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#4203: Jun 19th 2025 at 5:18:27 AM

[up]Support cutting it. The book isn't Condemned, it just had mind-blowing popularity at the time it was being published and is less popular now.

Lumberwood Outdated af account from Wouldn't you like to know? Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Outdated af account
#4204: Jun 21st 2025 at 1:08:59 AM

I haven't seen anyone talk about The Old Curiosity Shop in a particularly negative context, even if it's not of Dickens's more popular works. It seems like a safe cut.

Sincerely, Lumberwood
UchuuFlamenco Since: Jul, 2017
#4205: Jun 21st 2025 at 6:34:00 AM

The Hetalia example was added back with the edit reason "Example restored per consensus of the cleanup thread", but looking at this thread I don't see the supposed consensus anywhere.

CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
PEPSIMAN
#4206: Jun 21st 2025 at 7:13:41 AM

~Lumberwood, why did you re-add the Hetalia entry even though there was no consensus?

Personally, I don’t think the work has been condemned, just faded in popularity.

Do not mess with creatures which you do not understand.
worldwidewoomy (Plucky Ensign) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#4207: Jun 21st 2025 at 10:45:11 AM

at the very least, i've seen remarks that Hetalia's premise aged less than gracefully, but i don't think i've seen enough to fully say it's been condemned.

Lumberwood Outdated af account from Wouldn't you like to know? Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Outdated af account
#4208: Jun 21st 2025 at 12:35:16 PM

[up][up] Discussion on Hetalia went on for about a week and got stuck between more prominent CBH discussions for a bit before petering out. The general consensus leaned in favor of keeping it as an example rather than leaving it cut, as nobody besides the cutter themselves initially voiced any objections to keeping it, and half the responses to the subject either leaned toward or were explicitly for restoring the example.

If you feel that a proper consensus wasn't reached, or even simply that the example doesn't count period, then feel free to re-cut it yourself. I have no personal take on the work in question given that it's one I'm only familiar with in passing.

Sincerely, Lumberwood
MathsAngelicVersion Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music from Gensokyo Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
#4209: Jun 26th 2025 at 4:04:19 AM

  • When Dear Evan Hansen first opened on Broadway in 2016, it was praised by critics for its emotional songs and performances and its bold look at social media, mental health, and teen suicide. It became a pop-culture phenomenon almost as big as Hamilton had been the previous year. Multiple songs from the show became Breakaway Pop Hits (very few modern Broadway shows have even one song that becomes this), the show won the Tony for Best Musical with Ben Platt also winning for his performance in the title role, and a movie adaptaion was announced. However, that 2021 movie adaptation ended up causing the show's reputation to take a nosedive. The movie was poorly received, not only for its Dawson Casting of a now-27-year-old Platt as a high schooler, but also because it exchanged the dreamlike, artificial staging of the musical for a realistic location shoot. This made people see more clearly how problematic its premise (a teenager is mistaken as the best friend of a suicidal classmate and takes advantage of the misunderstanding to date his classmate's sister and improve his social life) was. The poor reception of the movie and the increasing criticism of the show's premise spurred its closing on Broadway in 2022. While Dear Evan Hansen is not universally hated, its story is now seen as insensitive and problematic, while its initial hype is now usually chalked up to musical theater fans wanting so badly for it to be the next Hamilton that they were willing to overlook its Audience-Alienating Premise.

This was cut just for the "not universally hated" part, but I think it can still qualify if that amounts to "it has a few fans here and there, but current opinions on it are overwhelmingly negative". Thoughts?

generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#4210: Jun 26th 2025 at 5:07:10 AM

I did that cutting, actually.

CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
PEPSIMAN
#4211: Jun 26th 2025 at 7:18:43 AM

[up][up]While I’m not in the fandom or in the know, I feel like the Dear Evan Hansen hate is a Vocal Minority. People almost universally hate the film adaptation and its themes and plot have been ridiculed, but it's still an incredibly successful musical. And the entry itself seems more like it’s targeting the film adaptation rather than the musical.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Jun 26th 2025 at 8:19:36 AM

Do not mess with creatures which you do not understand.
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#4212: Jun 26th 2025 at 7:24:16 AM

I know that there were people criticizing the plot from the start, but the film was when a lot of people turned on it (probably because it brought the story, and it's problematic elements, to the non-theater going public, who otherwise maybe knew a few songs).

I don't think I've heard much of it since the film, to be honest.

That said, I don't think being successful (at least initially) is necessarily a disqualification from Condemned by History.

dwave Since: Aug, 2020
#4213: Jun 26th 2025 at 7:49:34 PM

Would Jelloapocalypse qualify? The one-two hit of the Lovely Complex incident + the One Piece video have more or less irrevocably tarnished his reputation, and most I speak to agree he was always just a bitter pesudo-intellectual above anything else.

Sorrelfox Total Poser (he/him) from Twilight Town (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
Total Poser (he/him)
#4214: Jun 26th 2025 at 9:20:38 PM

[up] I’d say maybe, yeah. I feel like his videos (can’t remember what they were called but those “summing up a franchise” ones) were popular at one point but I haven’t really seen any praise for him in a long time, just criticism. Personally I thought his Kingdom Hearts video was comically awful

I'm in a car underwater, with time to kill...
Lumberwood Outdated af account from Wouldn't you like to know? Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
Outdated af account
#4215: Jun 27th 2025 at 8:47:16 PM

[up][up] While he does feel like a potentially decent fit, my main concerns are that most of his videos still get a considerable number of views and likes, and although he's far more inactive nowadays than he used to be, he does still make uploads from time to time, which means his channel is technically still an "ongoing" thing.

Sincerely, Lumberwood
DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#4216: Jun 28th 2025 at 6:58:29 AM

Is it fine that Dan Schneider's CondemnedByHistory.Live Action TV entry is nearly the same as his entry on DarthWiki.Fallen Creator (which I think is the more logical trope for him rather than CBH)?

Edited by DukeNukem4ever on Jun 28th 2025 at 10:09:08 AM

RWBYraikou888 The Undercover Troper from The Kingdom of Atlas Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
The Undercover Troper
#4217: Jun 29th 2025 at 10:33:00 PM

I'd like to challenge the idea of lawn darts being considered CbH. Yes, they were extremely dangerous, but I don't believe that alone is a qualifier for being considered condemned. Most people seem to agree that, in theory, lawn darts were a great idea, and there are plenty of people who have nostalgia for them in spite of them being hazardous. And as the entry states, there have been attempts to keep their legacy alive through both safer plastic models and private tournaments, which showcases that people still like the idea of lawn darts and want to make them accessible without their hazardous stipulation. If they were truly condemned, people would deem them as beyond saving and not make the effort.

Orcus on His Throne will always be my pet peeve.
MagnoliaBloom91 Byronic Hero enjoyer | Lawful Neutral from The First Galactic Empire (Apprentice) Relationship Status: That's rough, buddy
#4218: Jun 30th 2025 at 12:21:44 AM

[up][up] Yeah I'm not sure Condemned by History really applies to Dan Schneider either, or at least not to his works. Many people still openly enjoy them. He's Overshadowed by Controversy sure (as well as, indeed, a Fallen Creator), and in hindsight some of the things in the shows he created can come off as rather unfortunate, but they are not outright hated despite that.

Prequel apologist | I like fixing up YMMV and Trivia pages.
DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#4219: Jul 2nd 2025 at 12:07:10 AM

This entry was added in the Video Games section.

Not really familiar with the port itself, so I'm not sure if the criticism is valid of sorts.

Zerounit42 The Oogie Boogie Man from Home (Plucky Ensign) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
The Oogie Boogie Man
#4220: Jul 2nd 2025 at 1:22:37 AM

Not familiar with the Dreamcast original, but how was this seen as a Polished Port? I recall reviews at the time calling it a lame port, with the most generous ones simply seeing it as proof that Sonic Adventure has aged horribly. At best I can see it as a good enough way to play the game at the time (I had no problems with it), but while I can see the average person conflating the two versions together, there's no way fans would see the Nintendo GameCube version as representative of Adventure as a whole.

TL;DR, DX was Condemned from the beginning, History didn't have to do a thing.

"Well, well, well, what have we here?".
GearFriedTheKnight BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century. from The nearest road that can be raced (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
BLOCKING - A weapon for the 21st century.
#4221: Jul 2nd 2025 at 2:01:37 AM

I distinctily remember people complaining about DX since it was released and completely ignoring its one merit of making the game accessible to those who didn't have a Dreamcast.

I feel like that entry is yet another case of "Unpleasable Sonic fanbase gets swept up and wildly bashes something or piles on to already existing criticism". Cut.

''There's no magic in tuning; yet, it's something that tends to escape from any logic."
PhantomDusclops92 Nitpicky Nitwit from Italy Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Nitpicky Nitwit
#4222: Jul 2nd 2025 at 7:31:03 AM

People complained about DX back when it first came out. I remember reviews from back then that had multiple paragraphs complaining about its constant framerate drops and stuff like that.

KingofNightmares Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#4223: Jul 2nd 2025 at 7:37:56 AM

Based on all this, the entry for it on PortingDisaster.Consoles should be altered to remove the "recent years" point, in this case.

EDIT: Done.

Edited by KingofNightmares on Jul 2nd 2025 at 7:39:58 AM

"It was the best of times, it was the BLURST of times?"
ITTrpr20 Since: Jan, 2018
#4224: Jul 7th 2025 at 7:24:36 AM

Honestly I feel like Hetalia shouldn't count because while it's not nearly as discussed, there's still plenty of genuine fans who appreciate the humor and characters and don't bring nationalist politics into things. So while I get there's precedent for controversy I haven't seen a lot of outright hate for it at least in my circles, but if it is still valid I guess we can keep it.

Also someone removed the X-Play example solely because the entry mentions the failure of the 2021 reboot and it being less than 5 years removed from cancellation, is that valid? Or since the worst aspects of the show happened in the new millennium enough time has passed that it's still valid?

SkylaNoivern Since: Sep, 2016
#4225: Jul 7th 2025 at 8:38:48 AM

[up] I'm going to say no on removing X-Play because bar a brief mention of the failed 2021 reboot, the entry solely focused on the original show from almost two decades ago and how its reception has soured. You could possibly remove the reboot part or mention how its failure showed how there was a lack of interest in the series.

Edited by SkylaNoivern on Jul 7th 2025 at 8:39:43 AM


Total posts: 4,475
Top