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Condemned by History cleanup thread

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Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM

magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020
#2151: Dec 11th 2021 at 6:41:22 AM

Do internet portals really count as Condemned by History? Looking at the entry, it feels more like Technology Marches On.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#2152: Dec 11th 2021 at 5:43:17 PM

Bit late on this, but regarding Super Size Me, I do remember watching it in middle school health class and I do recall its reputation taking a big 180 during The New '10s; nowadays whenever I see it brought up, it's usually to bring up its flaws. Whether or not that brings it from "forgotten" to "condemned" is up to you since it still seems to have fallen out of the public consciousness after Spurlock's scandals, but the fact that what memory of it does exist is typically negative is indicative of something.

Also as a quick correction, Spurlock was a vegan before shooting the documentary, not a vegetarian.

Be kind.
harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#2153: Dec 11th 2021 at 5:51:03 PM

[up]Thanks for the correction on the vegan/vegetarian thing, I thought they were interchangeable terms for the same concept.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#2154: Dec 11th 2021 at 10:22:17 PM

[up]No problem; glad to be of help.

Be kind.
SkylaNoivern Since: Sep, 2016
#2155: Dec 12th 2021 at 9:39:51 AM

If it is a case of being condemned rather than forgotten, maybe an entry like this could work?

Super Size Me was a massive hit when it came out in 2004. Its premise, showing how drastically director Morgan Spurlock's health plummets after eating fast food for a month, earned it praise for bringing attention to the dangers of excessive fast food consumption and rising obesity rates in the United States, and its influence resulted in McDonald's discontinuing their supersize portions. Its content also led to public schools putting the film on their curriculum. However, the film began attracting criticism for the veracity of Spurlock's experiment. The film Fat Head, a response to the movie by dietician Tom Naughton, did the same challenge but was unable to replicate its results, especially due to Spurlock keeping his experiment's food log private. A sequel to the film, Super Size Me 2: Holy Chicken!, was released in September 2017, only to quickly be pulled from the Sundance Film Festival and YouTube Red after Spurlock admitted to sexual misconduct two months later. Nowadays, Super Size Me is generally mocked for having a Captain Obvious Aesop, or is overshadowed by Spurlock's own controversies.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#2156: Dec 12th 2021 at 11:01:48 AM

Hmm, I feel it could use a bit more elaboration on the veracity issues. I think it could be refitted into something like this:


  • When Super Size Me originally released in 2004, it was a massive hit and was widely praised for illustrating issues with the fast food industry and its connection to the obesity epidemic by showing the ill effects of Morgan Spurlock eating nothing but McDonald's for a month. Its publicity led to McDonald's removing the "Super Size" option from its menu and made it a staple of health classes in American schools. However, by the end of the decade, it began attracting increasingly vocal criticism for the veracity of its experiment, with people highlighting confounds like Spurlock both having a history of alcoholism and having been a vegan prior to filming. The response documentary Fat Head particularly brought the film's issues to the forefront by repeating Spurlock's experiment but failing to replicate its results. By the second half The New '10s, Super Size Me became better known for its methodological flaws, and the withdrawal of its sequel from the Sundance Film Festival and YouTube Red in the wake of Spurlock's admissions to sexual misconduct only drove more nails into the coffin. Nowadays, Super Size Me is typically mocked for both its Captain Obvious Aesop and its veracity issues when it isn't overshadowed by Spurlock's scandal.

Edited by bowserbros on Dec 12th 2021 at 11:02:59 AM

Be kind.
Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#2157: Dec 12th 2021 at 11:29:55 AM

[up][tup]

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#2158: Dec 12th 2021 at 11:41:42 AM

[up][up][tup]

I retract my claim about the movie being not Condemned by History as well.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#2159: Dec 12th 2021 at 1:51:11 PM

I would like to suggest Man on the Moon should be example. The YMMV page has this:

  • Vindicated by History: Inverted — the film was critically-acclaimed at the time of its release and Carrey won plaudits for what was seen as an eerie channeling of Kaufman, to the point that many were shocked he didn't receive an Oscar nomination for Best Actor. However, over time (and unlike Carrey's other early dramatic film, The Truman Show), opinions on the film and Carrey's performance in particular have declined considerably. With much more of Kaufman's filmography available on demand to the general public than it was in 1999 - including a very popular side-by-side scene comparison of the scenes Carrey is re-creating to Kaufman's original performances - it's obvious that Carrey is overacting, depicting Kaufman throughout with an anxious, nervous energy (and seeming lack of confidence and self-assurance) the real man never really had in any of his personas. This might not be so terrible in and of itself if not for the making-of documentary in which Carrey applied extreme Method Acting techniques to the point of claiming to be possessed by the spirit of Kaufman (which he has never renounced post facto and even reasserts in the documentary). Whether or not Kaufman would have approved of such antics is an open question (those who had interacted with both men were divided, and Jerry Lawler was particularly vocal in claiming that Carrey wasn't acting anything like the real Kaufman at all off-camera) what we do know is that he created a hostile work environment to underwhelming results, especially as the general backlash against Method Acting mounted starting in The New '10s. His audition tapes - made, of course, before he claims to have been "possessed" by Kaufman - show him giving a very similar performance to what was seen in the finished film, so his Method Acting didn't even improve his performance beyond what he would have given had he not done it at all.

Since the opposite of VBH is this trope, might it count? or is it Overshadowed by Controversy?

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#2160: Dec 12th 2021 at 2:34:47 PM

Went ahead and added the Super Size Me writeup to Condemned by History, citing this thread.

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SpongeBat1 We stan Clippy in this house from Quittersville, Failuretown, and Loserburg (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: It's a god-awful small affair
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#2161: Dec 12th 2021 at 3:41:16 PM

[up][up]That doesn't sound like it counts. Is the film as a whole looked down upon now, or just Carrey's performance? And either way, that entry just reeks of complaining.

Edited by SpongeBat1 on Dec 12th 2021 at 4:41:45 AM

Came for the tropes, stayed for the cleanup.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#2162: Dec 12th 2021 at 4:24:45 PM

[up][up][up] I have not heard of Man on the Moon being nearly as hated as the other stuff on this trope. I don't think it counts. And Sponge Bat 1 is right, the entry is very complain-y.

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bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#2163: Dec 12th 2021 at 5:42:27 PM

Yeah, I don't recall hearing about any big backlash towards Man on the Moon; it's been criticized both then and now for its historical liberties, but I don't remember hearing about it taking any dramatic 180s reputation-wise.

Be kind.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
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#2164: Dec 12th 2021 at 6:20:12 PM

Mind if I add something about the growing awareness of the fact that often people, many in minority groups, eat McDonalds because it’s all they can afford to the Super Size Me entry?

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Dec 12th 2021 at 9:23:06 AM

Once Upon A Time.
harryhenry It's either real or it's a dream Since: Jan, 2012
It's either real or it's a dream
#2165: Dec 12th 2021 at 6:29:05 PM

I suppose it has been reappraised to some degree in the wake of the Jim & Andy Netflix documentary, but not enough to say the film is totally Condemned.

[up] Also sure, it's worth pointing out.

Edited by harryhenry on Dec 13th 2021 at 3:30:04 AM

magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020
#2166: Dec 12th 2021 at 7:30:50 PM

We should also bring up accolades that it earned, such as an Oscar nomination

Edited by magnumtropus on Dec 12th 2021 at 7:34:38 PM

generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#2167: Dec 13th 2021 at 5:46:01 AM

I say we just delete that entry entirely from Man on the Moon

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#2168: Dec 13th 2021 at 9:42:44 AM

[up]Agreed; it feels like a myopic form of stealth-complaining.

Edited by bowserbros on Dec 13th 2021 at 9:42:53 AM

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toonyloon Since: Jul, 2011
#2169: Dec 13th 2021 at 1:19:24 PM

Also, tip to everyone: If you're going to add Condemned by History to a work, just add the trope. Don't say "Vindicated by History: Inverted."

despoa Since: Aug, 2012
#2170: Dec 14th 2021 at 12:23:29 AM

@The Living Drawing Its amusing you say that because McDonald's is pretty expensive compared to some of its competitors for the portions you get. Oftentimes, the reason people buy fast food is because they don't have the time or energy to prepare food for themselves, hence the term "fast food".

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
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#2171: Dec 14th 2021 at 8:30:36 AM

[up]I think they were referring more to the idea of nutritional droughts, infrastructural patterns where fast food establishments crowd out grocery stores and other healthier eating options in low-income and otherwise redlined areas, thus making fast food legitimately the only practical eating option for residents in these places.

Be kind.
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
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#2172: Dec 14th 2021 at 9:21:16 PM

[up]I once visited Midtown Manhattan and there are so many more fast food joints than there are grocery stores that sell produce.

Kirby is awesome.
despoa Since: Aug, 2012
#2173: Dec 15th 2021 at 12:08:55 AM

That's Manhattan, though. The whole place is a tourist trap meant to suck up money from those who have it. bowserbros has a point.

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
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#2174: Dec 15th 2021 at 3:22:07 AM

[up] Hey, there are nice parts of NYC too. I live about 30 minutes to an hour away from the city, it's not all a tourist trap.

But yeah, the supermarkets tend to be pretty small in the city. Lot of fast food, though it depends on what part of the city we're talking about. Some areas have less, some have more.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Dec 15th 2021 at 6:22:30 AM

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magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020

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