Follow TV Tropes

Following

Condemned by History cleanup thread

Go To

The newly renamed Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by Berrenta on Mar 3rd 2021 at 5:15:31 AM

Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
Sep 24th 2019 at 9:21:33 PM

  • Twilight is as far as universally loved as you can get. It had its fans and was popular among some demographics but had a strong Periphery Hatedom since the very begining.

  • Bleach may have been very popular, but I don't feel it has such a general hatedom right now to count (this is subjective of course), I think Naruto would qualify better.

  • Milly Vanilly depends; are we talking of the music or the band itself? Because as mentioned before the songs are still popular, the band is hated. So if the division can be made, I would say is an example (the band).

Sep 25th 2019 at 6:58:05 AM

Like Bleach, Naruto doesn't fall under DTD and the franchise is currently continuing with the sequel series focusing on his son Boruto.

J79
Sep 25th 2019 at 1:16:34 PM

When it comes to pro wrestling, I've seen a backlash toward the Attitude Era lately. Obviously not the wrestlers involved, but the emphasis on sex, profanity and other "edginess". Would that qualify for DTD?

rjd1922 Image Pickin' regular from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Image Pickin' regular
Sep 29th 2019 at 1:33:50 PM

Twilight is as far as universally loved as you can get. It had its fans and was popular among some demographics but had a strong Periphery Hatedom since the very begining.
Hence why I said the standard should be "very popular", not "universally loved".

Keet cleanup
Sep 29th 2019 at 1:55:30 PM

The point of the "near-universally loved" requirement is to avoid situations where the fans never actually turned against it, they just moved on, leaving the Periphery Hatedom as the only voices, which can make them seem louder even though general public opinion never really changed.

Which would seem to describe the situation with Twilight pretty well.

Edited by HighCrate on Sep 29th 2019 at 2:09:12 AM

Pichu-kun ...
...
Sep 30th 2019 at 8:24:15 PM

I think Twilight is the opposite of DID. The hatedom has moved on so people are looking at more sympathetically, plus it's becoming nostalgic. The series also received a new book a few years ago; a genderbender solo title.

rjd1922 Image Pickin' regular from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Image Pickin' regular
Sep 30th 2019 at 8:41:32 PM

[up]The genderswapped book was barely a blip on the radar. It didn't sell well or get that much attention.

Keet cleanup
nrjxll Relationship Status: Not war
Oct 1st 2019 at 1:07:40 AM

I don't think there's much evidence to suggest people are looking at Twilight more positively. It's definitely not DTD, though, because the criticism was very present from the beginning.

alnair20aug93 🧡 orange 🧡 from Furrypines Relationship Status: Chocolate!
🧡 orange 🧡
Oct 1st 2019 at 3:02:21 AM

Even Lindsay Ellis made a video apologizing on Stephanie for her tirade against her in the past.

Los miercoles, usamos rosa.
Jan 2nd 2020 at 10:34:23 AM

YMMV.Discorded Whooves

  • Deader Than Disco: Unfortunately began to rear it's ugly head in recent years: The blog was heavily popular due to it's dark storytelling and the borderline amazing artwork by Jitters, however as the fandom slowly departed from Grimdark material due to oversaturation, the blog more or less began to be forgotten aside from Jitter's fanbase. It pretty much was warrant a death sentence following Tumblr's shut down of anything NSFW/Dark on their site. That being said, the blog's own extensive issues have dragged it down as well, not helped with MLP:FIM ended it's run.

It's still being updated, the latest one being today. I'm gonna cut as it violates the first rule that any ongoing series is disqualified. Any objections?

rjd1922 Image Pickin' regular from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Image Pickin' regular
Jan 2nd 2020 at 10:54:05 AM

[up]More importantly, it only mentions falling into obscurity, not any backlash. Cut it.

Keet cleanup
alnair20aug93 🧡 orange 🧡 from Furrypines Relationship Status: Chocolate!
🧡 orange 🧡
Jan 22nd 2020 at 4:17:27 AM

Bump. This came up on the New Media folder:

  • If you keep digging under the dirt beneath My Space, you'll find Website/Friendster. The very first modern social network enjoyed its moment in the sun in the early 2000s. Its creators wasted too much time considering how they could monetize and grow the site, however, and were unable to respond when My Space came along with its ability to let members customize the look of their pagesnote . By 2010 its user base was primarily in Southeast Asia, using the site mainly for games; in 2015 it was relaunched purely as a social gaming network.

From what I know, we just simply moved to Facebook around 2009-2011, regardless of the site redesign at the time. Plus the date on when they changed to social gaming is incorrent; they changed to a social gaming platform in 2011. And the site shut down in 2015. Seeing that there wasn't any backlash around this, I'll just go on and delete it.

Los miercoles, usamos rosa.
Feb 24th 2020 at 5:40:04 AM

Just drop by to say I've remove this on the ground that there's no mention of backlash.

  • The Sitcom petered out over the course of the 2010s. Many series that started in the 2000s had wrapped up by 2016 and very few were taking their place, due to streaming services offering more diverse kinds of comedy. There was also the fact that audiences were coming from various social and economic backgrounds, which meant characters who owned their own houses or lived in fancy apartments weren't as relatable as they were in previous years. Not helping matters was that the most exposed sitcoms such as Two and a Half Men and The Big Bang Theory were also the most polarising. The 90s favourite Roseanne would make a resurgence, but was Overshadowed by Controversy and more or less faded from public consciousness once the dust settled.

Pemulis_128 A 20th Century Boy from Teleporting behind you Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
A 20th Century Boy
Feb 24th 2020 at 7:08:06 AM

I have seen no signs of the sitcom genre as a whole becoming deader than disco. Cut it.

Apr 13th 2020 at 5:03:39 PM

I've noticed several examples of media referencing the death of disco specifically rather than media that is now deader than disco. Should I delete them, move them to the Disco example folder, leave them alone, or something else?

Thanks much!

God is God of truth, and thus of current webcomic example links. See also: Grammar Nazi Hedge Trimmer
Apr 14th 2020 at 4:21:23 PM

Hey, fellow tropers cool. I've noticed some of the misuse of this is due to examples that fit my proposal for a new trope.

In a lot of older fiction, particularly in music, there seems to be a certain type of work which no longer exists due to creative mindsets shifting. This isn't Values Dissonance, since it has nothing to do with real events. Instead, creators gradually reject an older way of crafting works. Take Madonna's debut album from 1983. Almost everything in it is missing from today's pop. The lack of auto-tune, the slower, less rushed pace, etc. This is definitely a phenomenon that deserves cataloging. Maybe simply "Artistic Mindset Shift". idea

Apr 17th 2020 at 9:53:25 AM

The new addition is questionable.

* Motion controls. When the Nintendo Wii launched with motion control as its controller gimmick, it was a huge hit, as it attracted a massive swath of casual and non gamers brought in by the idea of being able to feel like they're actually in the game controlling their actions and not being limited by their finger dexterity, while even hardcore gamers were intrigued by this new innovative way of playing games and found some fun with Wii Sports. This boon would lead to the Wii becoming Nintendo's most succesful home console and at the time the second best-selling home console after the Playstation 2, and Sony and Microsoft would get in on the craze with the Playstation Move and Kinect, offering more advanced motion control, particularly with the latter even ditching the need for any sort of controller and being able to sense your actual movements to control the game. Over time though motion control would become associated with shovelware as a deluge of shovelware games swamped the Wii and later the Kinect, Waggle as the vast majority of the time the "motion control" in a game came down to just lightly shaking your arm in a vague direction rather than having to do the actual motion being replicated ingame, and notorious unresponsiveness when games actually required more precise motion control. Sales for the Wii slowed dramatically in its later life as the fad died down and Nintendo would mostly abandon the concept with their followup console the Wii U, but the Wii branding was tarnished by then and reusing the branding is part of what made the Wii U fail. Then Microsoft decided to keep going with the Kinect on their next console, the Xbox One, but faced massive backlash when Microsoft initially announced that the Kinect would be required to use the console, with most gamers wanting nothing to do with motion controls at that point, and when combined with Microsoft's initially planed always-online DRM, people were concerned that Microsoft could use the Kinect to spy on them. Microsoft would backtrack from the Kinect and DRM requirement, but still bundle the Kinect with the launch Xbox Ones to inflate its price, which when combined with the reputation-damaging announcement, made the Xbox One stumble hard out of the gate and be left in the dust by Sony's much more successful PlayStation 4, while support for the Kinect would be discontinued a few years later. Nintendo would bring back motion control capability with the Switch's Joycons, but this feature only gets required in a scant few party games like 1-2-Switch and few other games optionally utilize it at all, while most gamers would have preferred if Nintendo just didn't bother with it. Nowadays when people think of the motion control era in video games they think of people flailing around like idiots and all the shovelware it brought, while only very few motion controlled games like the aformentioned Wii Sports are remembered fondly.

Hideous wall of text aside, the issue is that the "backlash" isn't at motion controls itself but how games rarely utilize it to fullest. The fact that there're still games with motion control being "remembered fondly" also make me think that it isn't Deader Than Disco.

Edited by Kuruni on Apr 17th 2020 at 11:54:05 PM

Apr 17th 2020 at 10:19:01 AM

Ring Fit Adventure is built around motion controls, and retailers can't keep it in stock.

Not DTD.

Apr 17th 2020 at 11:40:05 AM

Whether you want to say it was because games didn't utilize motion controls "properly" or not, fact is motion controls became largely detested by the end of the Wii era and developers started utilizing them less and less afterward because of that backlash and increasing unprofitability (Microsoft didn't discontinue the Kinect for nothing when it initially was going to be a requirement for their console), and the vast majority of gamers would rather just play their game on a standard controller instead of waggling a device or themselves around.

And Ring Fit Adventure doesn't debunk it, when that game is its own sort of thing with its appeal being a way to combine exercise at home with video games, rather than the purpose being controlling a standard game with your own motions.

Apr 17th 2020 at 11:56:56 AM

"Motion controls are DTD when I dislike them, and not DTD when they're 'their own thing,' and they're 'their own thing' when I decide they are."

That's a circular argument.

Apr 17th 2020 at 7:44:06 PM

Even ignoring Ring Fit Adventure there's also VR which is also heavily based around motion controls.

Apr 18th 2020 at 7:36:18 AM

And Ring Fit Adventure doesn't debunk it, when that game is its own sort of thing with its appeal being a way to combine exercise at home with video games, rather than the purpose being controlling a standard game with your own motions.

Which mean people have no problem with motion control itself as long as it's done right, and thus not DTD.

rjd1922 Image Pickin' regular from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Image Pickin' regular
Apr 18th 2020 at 10:12:49 AM

I'm not sure if motion controls really qualify, but saying they aren't Deader Than Disco because they're still used for exercise (rather than in mainstream games) is the equivalent of saying disco isn't dead because Stayin' Alive is used in CPR training.

Keet cleanup
GoldenCityBird from the UK
Apr 18th 2020 at 10:54:45 AM

Thing is, Ring Fit Adventure at least resembles a video game, while CPR doesn't look like a dance at all.

rjd1922 Image Pickin' regular from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Image Pickin' regular
Apr 18th 2020 at 4:44:06 PM

[up]I was expecting people to disagree with me, but that quote is amazing out of context.

Keet cleanup

Total posts: 1,873
Top

How well does it match the trope?

Example of:

/

Media sources:

/

Report