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Condemned by History cleanup thread

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Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM

sneakyspook Since: Aug, 2018
#1476: Sep 3rd 2018 at 11:54:25 AM

Should we add Iggy Azalea back to the music subpage?

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#1477: Sep 19th 2018 at 12:51:40 PM

PiDa added this:

  • Mullets were a common haircut throughout The '80s that tends to show up on heroic characters in media of this decade. However, the 90s backlash against the Eighties' coked-up excess made the style a target of mockery, beginning with The Beastie Boys' diss track of the style in 1993 (which originated the word 'mullet' - though not the hairstyle itself, which had been around since the 70s). While mullets have had occasional 'ironic' revivals from Eighties fanatics and lovers of kitsch, the style is far too irrevocably tainted to ever again be as sincerely cool as it was in 1985.

I remember we removed a hairstyle before, so is this legit?

GnomeTitan Oversized Garden Ornament Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Oversized Garden Ornament
#1478: Sep 19th 2018 at 1:10:02 PM

Just because it's a hairstyle doesn't mean it can't be legit. Mullets were universally considered cool in the 80s and are universally ridiculed today. "How could anybody ever think that was a good idea?"

So I think mullets really are deader than disco today.

ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#1479: Sep 19th 2018 at 4:09:08 PM

I recall this thread decided to cut mullets before, but I think it should be kept since mullets used to be a popular hairstyle in the 80s and are now made fun of today.

sneakyspook Since: Aug, 2018
#1480: Sep 21st 2018 at 9:05:46 PM

Should we remove Avril Lavigne yet? Her comeback single, "Head Above Water", is being treated as a return to form.

gjjones Musician/Composer from South Wales, New York Since: Jul, 2016
Musician/Composer
#1481: Nov 14th 2018 at 12:21:00 AM

Should this trope apply to 4Kids Entertainment? Aside from One Piece (which as we know, caused a major controversy amongst fans of the series), the company still received a ton of praise for their work on Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh!, as well as in-house productions and more obscure stuff like Ultimate Muscle, Shaman King, Fighting Foodons, and Dinosaur King.

Even though part of it is now 4K Media, they're still working on Yu-Gi-Oh!, which remains one of their popular franchises to this day.

Edited by gjjones on Nov 14th 2018 at 3:22:32 PM

He/His/Him. No matter who you are, always Be Yourself.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#1482: Nov 17th 2018 at 9:25:25 AM

[up] I don't think it counts. The existing entry on said page is pretty complainy, too, so if it does count it needs a rewrite.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Lymantria Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph from Toronto Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Tyrannoraptoran Reptiliomorph
#1483: Nov 18th 2018 at 6:45:21 PM

I'm still not sure how many actual, valid examples there are besides the Trope Namer, especially with how few examples the page currently has, or if this is tropeworthy at all...

Join the Five-Man Band cleanup project!
rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1484: Nov 19th 2018 at 5:53:45 PM

I think this is tropeworthy, but people are taking "universally loved" and "universally hated" too literally. As I said earlier, nothing is ever universally loved or hated. I think the standard should be "very popular" instead of "universally loved" and that we should go by similar standards as So Bad, It's Horrible with regards to "universally hated".

Edited by rjd1922 on Nov 20th 2018 at 4:41:28 AM

Keet cleanup
ADrago Since: Dec, 2015
#1485: Nov 19th 2018 at 6:55:16 PM

[up] I agree "universally loved" and "universally hated" shouldn't be taken literally as everything is going to have at least some fans or detractors.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1486: Nov 21st 2018 at 1:39:44 PM

Can we get this thread moving again? I think people have interpreted the definition to be a lot narrower than it is and cut legitimate examples. I don't think the "man on the street" test is a good rule at all; it should only have to be popular and then hated within the fanbase of its medium (anime, comics, etc.) to qualify. And I still think Twilight counts; in fact, I think it's a good model for what this trope should be.

Keet cleanup
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1487: Nov 21st 2018 at 3:23:16 PM

But the problem with that is that there were plenty of vocal people who thought Twilight was terrible right from the start.

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#1488: Nov 21st 2018 at 4:12:57 PM

[up][up] Twilight is the opposite of Deader Than Disco. It was hated horribly by half of people from the get go. If anything, it's become less hated ever since the final film came out and the fad died.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1489: Nov 21st 2018 at 8:17:04 PM

[up] But as I pointed out earlier, it's pretty much the exact same situation as The Jonas Brothers (the fans outgrew it and only the haters remained), so if we stand by cutting Twilight we have to cut the Jonas Brothers too. I don't think Twilight's become less hated so much as it being so dead that mocking it is seen as old hat, and I imagine a lot of its former fans are now embarrassed to have liked it (though I'm not currently in contact with any former Twilight fans, so who am I to talk).

Edited by rjd1922 on Nov 21st 2018 at 10:28:55 AM

Keet cleanup
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1490: Nov 22nd 2018 at 12:12:31 AM

it being so dead that mocking it is seen as old hat

...but isn't that itself kind of an argument that it's not Deader Than Disco? I mean, if you look at disco itself, it remained a cheap punchline for like two decades after it 'died'.

On which subject it occurs to me that - as with a fair amount of YMMV pages - one real issue with this page is that it doesn't really allow for multiple shifts in opinion over time. Disco nowadays is no longer an example, but that shouldn't retroactively erase the backlash against as a thing.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1491: Nov 22nd 2018 at 4:53:27 AM

[up] I agree that not allowing multiple shifts in opinion over time is a problem. Disco itself never really came back, it's just that young people today don't share their parents hate for it.

Keet cleanup
Kuruni (Long Runner)
#1492: Nov 23rd 2018 at 12:49:47 AM

I've just removed following example.

    Arts 
  • Any great "isms" in the Modern Art after 1860. They tend to have a definite lifespan during which they gather artists, followers, claim fame - and eventually become stale and are forgotten. The reason is that those "isms" are usually connected to a handful of artists who develop a certain style, and once they abandon it, die, stop producing or a Genre Killer occurs, the "ism" is practically over. Any attempts to replicate or revive it would be considered as imitation or pastiche. For example, the heyday of Cubism was from 1907 to 1921; anyone attempting to make a Cubistic painting today would be considered an imitator at best and a fraud at worst.

First, it's general example. Second, there's no mention of retro backlash.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1493: Nov 24th 2018 at 10:03:18 PM

Multiple shifts in opinion over time is covered by Popularity Polynomial.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1494: Nov 25th 2018 at 5:52:29 AM

[up]Fair point, though disco never regained enough popularity to be considered Popularity Polynomial. I saw that Wyldchyld removed Bleach and referred to the YMMV.Bleach discussion page, even though I believe it was decided here to keep it, along with 4Kids.

Edited by rjd1922 on Nov 25th 2018 at 7:57:26 AM

Keet cleanup
rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#1495: Dec 8th 2018 at 7:53:31 PM

Based on what little I know, Bleach should be restored because this thread already decided to keep it. Anyone else agree or disagree?

Keet cleanup
OnGreenDolphinStreet Since: Feb, 2016
#1496: Dec 24th 2018 at 5:51:57 PM

Deleted the following example from the Real Life / Automobiles section:

  • The pillarless hardtop body style. Introduced by General Motors in 1949, it quickly became very popular and was offered by pretty much every major American automaker by the dawn of The '60s. However, concerns about rollover safety in The '70s led to it being phased out alongside the convertible, and while convertibles made a comeback in The '80s with the introduction of roll bars (both built-in and retractable), the hardtop has stayed dead.
There's no proof of retroactive hate given and it seems more of a case of Technology Marches On.

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#1497: Jan 10th 2019 at 12:31:01 AM

[nja]

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jan 10th 2019 at 12:32:01 PM

Pichu-kun ... Since: Jan, 2001
...
#1498: Jan 11th 2019 at 6:39:15 AM

I don't think the Jonas Brothers count. Like with most boy bands, there was always a vitrol hatedom.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Jan 11th 2019 at 6:39:30 AM

Luppercus ¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay? from Halloweentown Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
¿Que pasó que pasó vamos 'ay?
#1499: Jan 23rd 2019 at 10:26:22 AM

I don't think Twilight counts, it's more a case of Periphery Hatedom, the saga always had detractors from the begining and they were many and very vocal. It is true that nothing is universally hated or loved, but if we go for the not literal definition Twilight was kind of 50/50 at best (if not having slightly more hatedom than fandom since the begining).

Now YA adaptation movies on the other hand, maybe. They were popular and now are a punchline and box office poison.

Edited by Luppercus on Jan 23rd 2019 at 1:26:55 PM

PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#1500: Jan 23rd 2019 at 11:35:17 AM

Hey guys, I'd said a lot earlier in the year I'd make a case for Youtuber Onision being Deader Than Disco rather than being Overshadowed by Controversy due to backlash against him making all his previous work get shunned just as much due to controversy and the genre of his videos being unpopular now. I didn't do a writeup before as I didn't really think I knew enough on the topic to properly do it justice. However, here's a writeup I did about it, and if you guys think it's still better on Overshadowed by Controversy I could edit and move it there.

  • Gaining popularity for dating pop star Shiloh and creating a viral video titled "I'm a Banana", Youtuber Onision had millions of subscribers, became a millionaire off of his Youtube career, and maintained popularity with edgy, scene-style parody skits during the mid 2000s. However, there was massive backlash against him after Onision made videos in which he filmed Shiloh having a mental breakdown while she begged him to stop and in which he shaved her head without her consent. After breaking up with Shiloh, he then proceeded to marry a girl who had only just turned 18. Later evidence came to light that he had been speaking with this girl since she was 14, leading to further backlash as he was considered to have groomed her as a child into becoming his wife. Onision had meltdown after meltdown after this, trying to engage more popular Youtubers into debating him and denying he groomed his wife Taylor. He then caused even more controversy by inviting other 18 year olds into his home, trying to create a Psychotic Love Triangle between himself, his wife, and the 18 year olds. This resulted in one of the girls, Billie Dawn Web, revealing that he had wanted to chain her in his basement, disfigure herself, and have her tattoo 'I'm a liar' on herself as a result of displeasing him. All these controversies, Onision's current content showing definite misogynistic and homophobic beliefs despite his claims that he is a feminist, and the scene content that made Onision popular in the first place becoming Deader Than Disco have resulted in Onision being known for being an abuser who never produced anything of substance even in his heyday.

I think he was at one point popular enough to qualify for Deader Than Disco; I remember when I used to peruse old trashy gossip magazines at the hairstylist they mentioned the Shiloh videos and their breakup, which I think means Onision was popular enough to get at least a little mainstream attention in his heyday.

Edited by PhiSat on Jan 23rd 2019 at 12:35:42 PM

Oissu!

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