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Condemned by History cleanup thread

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Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM

Kuruni (Long Runner)
#1251: Jun 20th 2017 at 8:23:13 PM

I'm not even sure if Bubsy really get mostly favorable review. According to article on Hardcore Gaming 101 (here), the first game was indeed hyped as Sonic Killer, but the game itself is pretty bad. The second game is better, but still only medicore. Yes, the third game is horrible, but that's subject of Franchise Killer, not DTD.

Critic reviews on Gamefaqs give folowing scores for SNES version, 8/10, 7/10, and 3.625/5 (mostly good, but not incredible), and Genesis version got single 5/10 (utter average).

edited 20th Jun '17 8:28:58 PM by Kuruni

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1252: Jun 20th 2017 at 10:47:47 PM

[up]I'm inclined to cut Bubsy (if nothing else, I think it's more forgotten than hated), but that article doesn't seem like very good evidence that it was always unpopular, since it's clearly from a retrospective standpoint complaining about the artificial Follow the Leader nature of the game.

J79 Since: Jan, 2015
#1253: Jun 21st 2017 at 10:08:14 PM

I've pointed this out before, but I think that the entry for power ballads in music should be cut. I cant think of any significant backlash toward power ballads in general. Yes, some of the bands who performed them (mainly hair bands) got a backlash, but not just because of their ballads. And several rock bands still perform power ballads to this day (albiet not as prominently as in the 80s or early 90s).

edited 21st Jun '17 10:08:42 PM by J79

Xtifr World's Toughest Milkman Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
World's Toughest Milkman
#1254: Jun 22nd 2017 at 9:36:59 PM

[up] Totally agree. As I said before, the music page really deserves another going over—the first time we looked at it, we were still being overly cautious, and only trying to purge the most obvious and extreme non-examples.

And yeah, power ballads are, at worst, universally disliked by a few self-proclaimed "hard core" types. There are plenty of bad examples in the world, but that's just Sturgeon's Law.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1255: Jun 23rd 2017 at 7:05:09 PM

I am fine with going back through Music with a finer-toothed comb. There's probably a lot there that could stand to be nixed.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1256: Jun 25th 2017 at 6:23:57 AM

Removed this addition:

  • As hard as it might be to believe, back in the 1950's Richard Nixon was highly celebrate statesman, a fairly popular governor who became Vice President and nearly beat JFK in 1960, faded a little bit into obscurity until making a legendary comeback (thanks to his Southern Strategy in 1968 and reelection with an historic 520 electoral college votes (the record until 1984), things were looking good for him until watergate broke after that it was all downhill his public image tanked and had to resign, nowadays when ever anyone's compared Tricky Dick it's almost always in a negative way (like "as corrupt as watergate" or "as paranoid as Nixon"), now when people think of his presidency it's usually the futurama depictsion

We trope works, not people, and a political career doesn't count as a "work" in the sense we mean. Also it's poorly-written with many typos and grammatical errors.

AnonymousBosch Since: May, 2016
#1257: Jun 25th 2017 at 11:21:21 AM

I'm starting to have second thoughts on the Molly Ringwald example. As it stands, it comes across as a little too harsh. A lot of people, including some close friends in real life, still like her as an actress, even if it is more of a cult following and not full-blown megastardom, a la Bruce Campbell.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1258: Jun 26th 2017 at 12:54:43 PM

"Did not become or remain a mega-star" is not Deader Than Disco, and it's extremely problematic to apply that to individual people.

Also, Molly Ringwald certainly had quite a few roles back in the Brat Pack era, but I don't ever remember her being "Hyuuuge" except within that limited range.

edited 26th Jun '17 12:56:38 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1259: Jun 26th 2017 at 3:52:28 PM

I'm good with nixing the Molly Ringwald example.

Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#1260: Jul 7th 2017 at 2:07:39 PM

This was recently added to The Spoony Experiment:

  • Deader Than Disco: Once loved for his insightful reviews, Brutal Honesty, and comedic timing, Spoony suffered probably one of the most infamous falls from grace in web videos since Naruto: The Abridged Series. Viewers accuse Spoony of ripping off his viewers, since he keeps his Patreon open and makes hundreds a month, despite not updating his series since 2015. The videos he does put out are livestreams, and not very good ones, like his Final Fantasy XIV one (where he Rage Quit after a few quests because they fetch quests and spending most of the stream screwing around with the character customization), Until Dawn (where he outright yelled at his viewers for asking why he was playing a game he clearly wasn't enjoying), and Alien: Isolation (where he blamed the game for his own mistakes, to the point where he got compared to The King Of Hate). He was also accused of lying to his viewers, as seen here.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1261: Jul 7th 2017 at 4:01:56 PM

Internet 'celebrities' are not disco.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#1262: Jul 7th 2017 at 4:06:33 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure that entry is valid. As [up] said, "internet reviewers" are not exactly a "genre," and "internet critics" as a whole are still going strong.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
Anddrix Since: Oct, 2014
#1263: Jul 7th 2017 at 4:27:56 PM

Found this on The Defenders:

  • Deader Than Disco: Despite being one of Marvel's top books in the 1970s, the title's disastrous "New Defenders" revamp, the resurgence of the X-Men as a popular franchise, the rise of various spin-off books (New Mutants, X-Factor, West Coast Avengers), and Marvel moving the founding Defenders back to being solo heroes (and Namor being absorbed into the Avengers franchise), the book fell into a state of mockery as far as as a relic of a past period and not fit for modern comic readers. Attempts by Marvel to revive the book has largely failed and the only real successful revamp was a mini-series by the guys behind Justice League International which basically reduced the concept to an "odd couple" comedy. The Marvel NOW! version, Fearless Defenders lasted 12 issues.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1264: Jul 7th 2017 at 5:19:48 PM

Neither of those examples were ever anywhere near as big as disco, even within their own particular niches. I move they both be cut.

AreYouTyler Since: Aug, 2016
#1265: Jul 7th 2017 at 6:24:44 PM

Somebody added Deader than Disco to the Linkin Park YMMV subpage.

  • What many people are saying about the band after the release of "One More Light", it's had the worst performing singles of any LP album to date, with none of them cracking the top 40 and being virtually ignored on radio.

Madrugada Since: Jan, 2001
#1266: Jul 7th 2017 at 10:47:22 PM

Backlash, or just fall from favor?

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1267: Jul 8th 2017 at 6:18:20 AM

I could see a legit case being made for LP— they really were EVERYWHERE for a while, and it was followed by a significant backlash— but that entry text doesn't make it.

WhatArtThee Since: Oct, 2015
#1268: Jul 8th 2017 at 1:53:21 PM

I'm starting to wonder if this article even has much merit. All these examples being shot down for being "not popular enough" or "not enough backlash" makes me wonder what, apart from the titular Disco, does qualify? I can't really think of much things which were universally loved and then universally detested.

Just another day in the life of Jimmy Nutrin
AreYouTyler Since: Aug, 2016
#1269: Jul 10th 2017 at 8:07:27 AM

My definition of "DTD" is as follows. The trend was everywhere for a while, then it suffered a major backlash and lost all its fans.

A good example would be Milli Vanilli, who had three #1 hits before it was revealed that they were lip syncing everything.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#1270: Jul 10th 2017 at 8:10:07 AM

Frankly, the difficulty in judging RL examples makes me think we should just give up on this thing and make it In Universe Examples Only.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1271: Jul 10th 2017 at 8:37:13 AM

For the sake of ordering, I'd like to ask people to convey such proposals to TRS. This is a cleanup topic, aimed at fixing the example sections.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
J79 Since: Jan, 2015
#1272: Jul 12th 2017 at 11:24:36 AM

Just a minor note, Zima is apparently making a comeback (not sure if its permanent or just a limited time thing), so you may want to remove that example from the Real Life tab.

Animeking1108 Since: Jan, 2010
#1273: Jul 12th 2017 at 6:18:33 PM

Naruto: The Abridged Series and Alternate Reality DBZ have this trope mentioned in their YMMV pages, but not the main one. In fact, I was the one that put down ARDBZ's entry a while back before I learned about this. Do they truly qualify? NTAS seems to fall more under Seasonal Rot than actual Deader Than Disco, since the last time I looked at the older videos, they still had love in the comments and even the most recent NTAS episode, after the infamous Naruto The Abridged Movie, was far better received.

As for the latter, that, along with NTAS, seem to have been a case of Overshadowed by Awesome. The former got overshadowed by Naruto: The Abridged Comedy Fandub Spoof Series Show while the latter got overshadowed by Dragon Ball Z Abridged.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#1274: Jul 12th 2017 at 6:24:41 PM

That sounds like another case of not being pervasive enough to begin with to qualify. I had never heard of a "Naruto the Abridged Movie", let alone that it was 'infamous'.

HighCrate Since: Mar, 2015
#1275: Jul 13th 2017 at 6:55:11 AM

Submitting the following entry for consensus:

  • Identity Crisis was never lacking in detractors, but this was primarily because it was so big and popular; it was The Big Comic of 2004 That Everyone Was Talking About. Everywhere you went on comic sites, there were people debating over what Identity Crisis meant for the industry, whether its tonal shift boded darker and more mature stories, and whether the DCU would ever be the same again. But as the years ground on, the general opinion of Identity Crisis slipped from "controversial masterwork of our time" to "half-baked edgy fumble." Maybe it was how few of the story threads set up by Identity Crisis actually went anywhere or weren't promptly ignored or retconned, maybe it was how everyone tried to copy it at DC for a few years with increasingly weaker results, maybe it was that people started examining it and separating it from its hype and found that it was actually a very lacking story in many ways. Whatever it is, Identity Crisis has very few fans today, and whenever someone admits to remembering liking it, they'll usually be greeted by everyone else pointing out its plotholes.

I deleted it because the Weasel Words "while never lacking its detractors" make me strongly suspect that it fails the "universally beloved" portion of the definition. Troper Fuzzy Barbarian restored it without alteration.


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