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Condemned by History cleanup thread

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Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM

generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#3826: Sep 24th 2024 at 4:31:30 PM

He was always criticised to some degree.

SpongeBat1 We stan Clippy in this house from Quittersville, Failuretown, and Loserburg (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: It's a god-awful small affair
We stan Clippy in this house
#3827: Sep 24th 2024 at 5:34:57 PM

And his condemnation in the modern day has less to do with people reevaluating his music and more to do with his litany of controversies.

We've been getting a lot of "Does this thing count? People used to love it but then the creator got into controversy and now everyone hates it!" examples lately. I think we may need to add a rule or disclaimer about how something's reputation being tainted by controversies unrelated to the work isn't a qualifier. CBH and OBC are separate tropes for a reason.

Edited by SpongeBat1 on Sep 24th 2024 at 6:35:11 AM

Came for the tropes, stayed for the cleanup.
jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#3828: Sep 24th 2024 at 5:40:44 PM

For R. Kelly to be Condemned by History, his actual music would need to be reevaluated—and to a significant degree, not just knee-jerk reactions in response to his conviction and imprisonment.

dominicmgm Daniellemgm from Teesside (it's NOT Teeside), UK Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Daniellemgm
#3829: Sep 25th 2024 at 5:34:44 PM

Would Happy Feet count? It was pretty popular back in 2006 and won the Oscar for Best Animated Feature, but overtime opinion on the film seems to have shifted towards the negative and is now seen as one of the worst Best Animated Feature winners.

SpongeBat1 We stan Clippy in this house from Quittersville, Failuretown, and Loserburg (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: It's a god-awful small affair
We stan Clippy in this house
#3830: Sep 25th 2024 at 5:44:04 PM

[up]Both Ratatouille and The Simpsons Movie were making fun of it less than a year later so I'd wager it was always divisive.

Came for the tropes, stayed for the cleanup.
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#3831: Sep 25th 2024 at 5:47:36 PM

Yeah, it was never that beloved.

dominicmgm Daniellemgm from Teesside (it's NOT Teeside), UK Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Daniellemgm
#3832: Sep 25th 2024 at 6:12:25 PM

Ah, fair enough. I figured that since what I've heard of it now seems to be universally negative, that it'd be fit for here. Guess not, then.

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#3833: Sep 25th 2024 at 7:45:36 PM

I would argue it's definitely not universally negative, either. It's probably just opinions have gone, but I doubt that low.

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#3834: Sep 27th 2024 at 1:53:06 PM

  • Rugrats was once celebrated as a quintessential 90s Nicktoon, known for its groundbreaking representation, subversion of gender norms, and mature storytelling, exemplified by arcs like the Chuckle's Mom saga. Though it experienced a decline in popularity during the 2000s, many recognized it as a precursor to numerous 2010s cartoons, with creators like Alex Hirsch citing it as an influence. Animation pioneers Arlene Klasky and Gabor Csupo established a significant legacy with the series. The show permeated popular culture, referenced on platforms like Saturday Night Live, and often featured in celebrity fashion and music. Its resurgence was solidified between 2015 and 2017 with buzz surrounding a reboot and a 25th anniversary celebration, which included Klasky's first public appearance in years, a voice cast reunion, and a new line of comic books. In 2018, the reboot announcement generated widespread excitement among fans, especially with the involvement of Paul Germain. However, a shift occurred in 2019 after Brian Robbins took over Nickelodeon. Viewers began critiquing the network's nostalgia reliance, particularly following the cancellations of shows like Glitch Techs and Rise of the TMNT, leading to a backlash against the Rugrats reboot. Adding to the discontent, internet critics like Saberspark highlighted behind-the-scenes tensions, casting Klasky in a negative light, while Mr. Enter discussed the show's decline. Fans expressed disappointment over narrative pacing and claimed the series had not aged well. What didn't help was that nostalgia for edgier gag driven shows (which were also one of the reasons for the franchise's initial demise in the 2000s) emerged the same year, stealing Rugrats' spotlight. When the reboot finally aired, it sparked controversy due to its CGI approach and significant character alterations, including the reimagining of Susie and Betty, the latter of which fans perceived as insincere pandering rather than a continuation of the original's progressive values. By 2024, the reboot was removed from Paramount+, eliciting a lackluster response, and a new video game drew minimal excitement. Klasky's retirement announcement was also met with indifference. In retrospect, many view the liking the show as an Old Shame attributing its temporary resurgence to the stagnation of the two other top Nicktoons in the early 2010s.

This reads like backlash against the creators and reboot as opposed to the original work being re-evaluated, given it doesn't explain what about it is now seen as bad.

The resurgence in popularity being condemned sound more like the decline part of Popularity Polynomial, correct?

Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
jlvs200s from The Netherlands (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: I miss my wife, Tails
#3836: Sep 27th 2024 at 1:58:37 PM

[up][up] Nuke that entry as I'm sure the original Rugrats series is still popular and respected enough that it doesn't in any way qualify for the trope, even if it isn't as popular as it used to be.

"The time has come for every last Shoppe... No! The time has come for the DREAM KINGDOM to bow down to me! Gotcha ! Hee-hee!" | He/Him
SpongeBat1 We stan Clippy in this house from Quittersville, Failuretown, and Loserburg (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: It's a god-awful small affair
We stan Clippy in this house
#3837: Sep 27th 2024 at 2:07:19 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, torch that shit. I'm not even a big Rugrats fan myself and even I think this entry is way too complainy and not a valid example.

Came for the tropes, stayed for the cleanup.
Echidna from Ontario, Canada (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Two-timing
#3838: Sep 27th 2024 at 2:08:38 PM

[up]X4 absolutely remove the entire example.

Edited by Echidna on Sep 27th 2024 at 5:08:51 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#3839: Sep 27th 2024 at 2:38:06 PM

Nuke that Rugrats example to kingdom come.

Eh, good enough.
dominicmgm Daniellemgm from Teesside (it's NOT Teeside), UK Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: Hooked on a feeling
Daniellemgm
#3840: Sep 27th 2024 at 5:58:11 PM

Not even a Rugrats fan, but the show is still well-liked. Nuke it from orbit.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#3841: Sep 30th 2024 at 3:58:28 PM

The reason there's any backlash against the new Rugrats is because the original is still revered, so yeah definitely not an example.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#3842: Oct 1st 2024 at 4:06:52 PM

Late, but the Rugrats entry can go. I still see a fair bit of nostalgia for it — I remember Pan-Pizza of RebelTaxi doing a positive retrospective on it, and I feel like I still see it pop up as a piece of nostalgia for The '90s. Furthermore, the entry doesn't do a good job of explaining why people don't like the original series anymore — only saying "fans expressed disappointment over narrative pacing and claimed the series had not aged well" and claiming "nostalgia for edgier gag driven shows" supposedly killed it. The entry can go.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Oct 1st 2024 at 7:08:37 AM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
generation81 Since: Aug, 2021
#3843: Oct 5th 2024 at 10:42:58 AM

This was just added.


  • Released in 2009, "The Hangover" emerged as a monumental commercial triumph, amassing a staggering $247 million globally and claiming the title of the highest-grossing R-rated comedy in the United States, surpassing the long-standing record held by Beverly Hills Cop. The film's quotable lines became a cultural phenomenon, echoing in everyday conversations, while its success paved the way for a wave of imitators and propelled the careers of its leading actors to new heights. Despite the tepid reception of "Due Date", the momentum of The Hangover remained largely unscathed, leading to the swift greenlighting of a sequel. However, by the time "The Hangover Part II" hit theaters in 2011, the franchise began to show signs of strain. Although it garnered a dedicated fanbase and outperformed its predecessor at the box office, critics lambasted it for being a mere rehash of the original's formula. The once-vibrant buzz surrounding the series began to wane, as audiences shifted their attention to "Film/Ted", which soon claimed the title of the most talked-about comedy. The release of a third installment in 2013 was met with both dismal critical reviews and disappointing box office returns, effectively signaling the end of the franchise's reign. Many former fans, who once reveled in the antics of the original films, found themselves moving on, leaving The Hangover a relic of its former glory. Moreover, public sentiment towards the first film has soured, with many criticizing its humor as homophobic, transphobic, and racist—elements that feel outdated and have not aged well. Additionally, Mike Tyson's significant role in the films adds to their controversial legacy. Today, these movies are primarily recognized as relics of their time, having launched the careers of Bradley Cooper, Zach Galifianakis, and Ed Helms, who have since moved on to more successful projects and have shown little interest in pursuing a sequel.

I don't think it counts as CBH.

Paperfly Buzz from On The Wall Since: Jun, 2022
Buzz
#3844: Oct 5th 2024 at 10:53:27 AM

I think the consensus is that The Hangover is a good comedy whose sequels were unwarranted.

This example was probably added because of a certain movie by a certain director

Image Pickin' Backlog
CanuckMcDuck1 PEPSIMAN from Japan Since: Sep, 2023 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
PEPSIMAN
#3845: Oct 5th 2024 at 12:01:23 PM

[up][up]The Hangover is a pretty good comedy that’s never had any major backlash, besides from the late 2000s Cringe Comedy jokes. Yeah, they are relics, but they’re still widely liked.

Do not mess with creatures which you do not understand.
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#3846: Oct 6th 2024 at 4:31:41 AM

If what Paperfly said is true, then this is just stealth complaining about that film. Cut it regardless, because The Hangover is still pretty liked to this day.

Eh, good enough.
MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#3847: Oct 7th 2024 at 6:05:55 PM

This was recently added to Kimba the White Lion, and it seems to be talking less about the series itself and more about the Lion King controversy.

  • Condemned by History: After Adam Johnston of YourMovieSucks.org made his two-and-a-half-hour video chronicling the history of Kimba and its similarities (or lack thereof) to The Lion King, pretty much everyone who seriously accused the latter of ripping off Kimba has been viewed in much less favorable light. As it turns out, many of them either never even watched Kimba and thus made a lot of incorrect assumptions about its plot and characters based on superficial similarities to The Lion King and/or parroted erroneous word of mouth, whiles others did watch it but treated the aforementioned superficial similarities as proof enough that TLK was a rip-off, along with displaying a fair bit of Confirmation Bias (by often citing incidental and narratively insignificant shots/moments from across the franchise and likening them to pivotal story beats from TLK, like an Animal Stampede from one episode or any miscellaneous cliff battle), and in a few cases, some used Kimba as a blunt instrument to slander Disney and The Lion King. To a lesser extent, the franchise itself got hit with this due to YMS highlighting a fair bit of Narm and Values Dissonance from its earlier installments.

SpongeBat1 We stan Clippy in this house from Quittersville, Failuretown, and Loserburg (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: It's a god-awful small affair
We stan Clippy in this house
#3848: Oct 7th 2024 at 6:10:51 PM

[up]It seems like a stretch to call a comparison "condemned". Discredited Meme / Common Knowledge, maybe?

Came for the tropes, stayed for the cleanup.
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#3849: Oct 7th 2024 at 6:18:15 PM

[up] Yeah this is nonsense.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#3850: Oct 7th 2024 at 6:19:21 PM

Even if we did allow comparisons, I highly doubt one video from a YouTuber would single-handledly end all debate about the Simba/Kimba stuff. Cut

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

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