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Condemned by History cleanup thread

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Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#3077: Sep 23rd 2023 at 1:07:56 PM

I would say it doesn't count.

Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
MathsAngelicVersion Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music from Gensokyo Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Ambassador of Eurogames and Touhou Music
#3079: Sep 30th 2023 at 4:49:34 AM

Does this count?

  • Åke Ohlmarks's Swedish translation of The Lord of the Rings was well-received in Sweden at the time, with critics praising it as a magnificent "swedification". However, its reputation turned far more hostile after it became known that it contained numerous misunderstandings, dubious name translations and arbitrary additions, such as the infamous confusion between Éowyn and Merry in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields. It didn't help that Ohlmarks took the older approach of adapting the work to his style instead of striving to match the original. In 2005, the fandom rejoiced when Ohlmarks's translation was finally superseded by a more faithful one.

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#3080: Sep 30th 2023 at 7:01:43 AM

Also regarding Song of the South, the Disney version of Br'er Rabbit, Br'er Fox, and Bre'er Bear are still incredibly popular characters in the Disney comics, although their connection to the film will rarely come up.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Sep 30th 2023 at 7:05:48 AM

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
PhantomDusclops92 Nitpicky Nitwit from Italy Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Nitpicky Nitwit
#3081: Oct 1st 2023 at 11:17:03 AM

[up] Actually, Disney began removing all traces of Br'er Rabbit and company even when taken out of the context of the original movie since 2021.

Not only they removed the Br'er Rabbit statue from Disneyland and closed Splash Mountain to retool it into a The Princess and the Frog ride, but there are sources claiming that Disney forbid making new media featuring the characters since at least June 2021 (with the last product being a Netherlands-exclusive comic).

The source is this Instagram post by Egmont artist Massimo Fecchi. The post is in Italian, but translated says "This is the last time ever I'll draw Br'er Bear alongside the Big Bad Wolf. Disney decided that he, alongside Br'er Rabbit and Br'er Fox, should be left to die since they're overly tied to racist content."

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#3082: Oct 1st 2023 at 11:19:08 AM

I mean, that doesn't technically mean they're unpopular characters — just that Disney is trying to get rid of them. I'm sure they're controversial now but that doesn't inherently mean people hate them. It's stuff like Speedy Gonzalez or Pepe La Pew, characters that have become controversial but still have quite a large fanbase who miss them.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Tabs Since: Jan, 2001
#3083: Oct 1st 2023 at 11:57:22 AM

[up][up] That looks more like Creator Backlash, not about audience condemnation.

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#3084: Oct 3rd 2023 at 2:52:44 PM

Can a speedrunner be condemned by history if they were confirmed cheating much later?

Eh, good enough.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#3086: Oct 3rd 2023 at 3:44:16 PM

[up][up] I don't know. That's less people changing their mind on something's quality and more someone being outed for their achievements being illegitimate. By that token cut Lance Armstrong.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Oct 3rd 2023 at 6:44:44 AM

Once Upon A Time.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#3087: Oct 3rd 2023 at 3:51:45 PM

Yeahhh, I feel like the flaws should have always been apparent. A cheated speedrun is designed to look flawless to the audience, so people turning on it is due to new info, not an opinion shift.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#3088: Oct 3rd 2023 at 3:56:39 PM

I think cheating speedrunners are more Overshadowed by Controversy, the controversy being their cheating (and in the most infamous cases, the lengths they go to to cover up the cheating).

Oissu!
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#3089: Oct 8th 2023 at 6:55:30 AM

I think Jew Süss (1940) might qualify for this status. On release, it was a major critical and commerical success, but today it's universally condemned as a crude anti-Semitic screed.

As for the Swedish LOTR translation, I think it could qualify, provided the info is accurate.

Edited by ImperialMajestyXO on Oct 8th 2023 at 7:03:50 AM

Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#3090: Oct 10th 2023 at 11:17:50 AM

[up] I'd be in favor of the above

Also I'm wondering if under the Video Game Trends section we should include something for Real Is Brown, something like this

Let me know how to condense it, or if it even qualifies.

Edited by Mariofan99 on Oct 10th 2023 at 2:25:28 PM

Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#3091: Oct 10th 2023 at 3:38:02 PM

[up]Remember that examples are not general.

Kirby is awesome.
Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#3092: Oct 10th 2023 at 5:15:43 PM

[up] True but by the same notion the video games page has a “genres and trends” folder

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#3093: Oct 10th 2023 at 5:18:32 PM

[up][up][up] Real Is Brown is still popular, just that trying it to apply to every game regardless of their genre and trying to be more "hip and edgy" with it isn't a valid tactic anymore. I say it fits more under Trend Killer.

Eh, good enough.
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#3094: Oct 11th 2023 at 4:26:27 AM

You could make it clearer that with the technology of the time, muted colours were the best way to make realistic visuals that didn't eat up processing power with light reflections and refractions.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
PhiSat Planeswalker from Everywhere and Nowhere Since: Jan, 2011
Planeswalker
#3095: Oct 11th 2023 at 11:39:04 AM

[up]I mean, that's not even really true. Plenty of lush, visually appealing games came out for the seventh generation of consoles. The Real Is Brown ones were just more popular and have aged much worse than the brighter ones.

[up][up]Is it really still popular? When I see it brought up these days it's usually as a criticism (that the visuals are dingy, muddy, etc), not as a point of appeal. I guess maybe as a Grandfather Clause thing like with Call of Duty people don't care? But even then I don't think CoD is as dingy as it was in generation seven.

Edited by PhiSat on Oct 11th 2023 at 12:41:49 PM

Oissu!
Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#3096: Oct 12th 2023 at 6:01:25 AM

I would favor putting Jew Süss (1940) on here, it's in the same category as The Birth of a Nation (1915). As I understand it, Goebbels was deliberately trying to create a "subtle" Propaganda Piece that would pull in a larger audience, on the logic that a work with artistic merit (Costume Drama, an All-Star Cast, etc.) would make the anti-Semitism more easily digestible. This is in contrast to a Box-Office Bomb like The Eternal Jew, which even German audiences who had been subjected to years of Nazi propaganda found to be ridiculous and viscerally disgusting. Of course, Génocidaires were invited to watch both.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Oct 12th 2023 at 6:04:41 AM

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Mariofan99 Since: Jun, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#3097: Oct 12th 2023 at 6:21:08 AM

[up][up] I’ll try to reword the Real is Brown entry and [up] im in favor of that

ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#3098: Oct 14th 2023 at 9:05:17 PM

Here's a draft entry:

  • Upon its release, Jew Süss (1940) was a major critical and commercial success, grossing more than three times its budget and earning the top award at the 1940 Venice Film Festival. Opinions of it quickly soured in the aftermath of World War II and The Holocaust, however, for a simple reason: its rampant antisemitic content. Commissioned by Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels for the explicit purpose of stoking hatred of Jews, the film's Villain Protagonist Josef Süss Oppenheimer is a purely malevolent Greedy Jew stereotype with no redeeming qualities, and every other Jewish character is also depicted in a resoundingly negative light. The film was screened for concentration camp guards and reportedly triggered multiple instances of antisemitic violence, which only further soured its postwar reputation. Today, the movie is seen not as a legitimate work of art or entertainment, but as a hateful screed that subjects an entire ethnoreligious group to horrific demonization, and one would be hard-pressed to find anybody talking about it except in the context of bigotry and propaganda.

Any suggestions?

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
DukeNukem4ever Since: Jan, 2017
#3100: Oct 15th 2023 at 12:10:01 AM

A J.K. Rowling entry had been added to literature section not long ago.

  • J.K. Rowling was once a highly celebrated and beloved author known for her work on the enormously popular Harry Potter book series, which spawned an arguably even more popular series of movie adaptations. Her popularity got so big to the point where she became one of the most well-known and respected authors around, thanks to her story of growing up in poverty and becoming rich, being very outgoing and respectful to her fans, and her numerous charity works. While her numerous Word of God statements, such as revealing the character Dumbledore to be gay, received some backlash due to many fans finding them nonsensical, unnecessary, and even contradictory to what was in the books, she was still mostly viewed in a positive light. However, she became engulfed in controversy in the late 2010s when she began making particularly controversial statements on Twitter that many decried as transphobic. It certainly didn't help that J.K. Rowling had such a huge LGBT Fanbase thanks to the morals and themes of Harry Potter (accepting others the way that they are) managing to deeply resonate with them, which just made her look like a massive Hypocrite when it came to her opinion on trans people, inevitably pissing a lot of them off. As a result, a majority of her fanbase denounced her and her beliefs, with several cast members of the film series publicly disagreeing with and condemning her views. Even Harry Potter wasn't safe from this, as while the series is still popular and well-liked by many who chose to ignore J.K. Rowling's controversial views, others have stated that they can't even bring themselves to enjoy the series anymore due to the author's political beliefs playing a large role in it, which in turn has started a serious debate over whether or not authors can and should be separated from their works. With all the controversy surrounding her, it's safe to say that J.K. Rowling's legacy has been greatly tarnished and will never fully recover.

I may be wrong, but wouldn't she be more of a Fallen Creator rather than fully condemned?


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