Condemned by History cleanup thread

I’d say not because the movie has always been controversial.

Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?

This was added and edited today.

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• Captain Planet and the Planeteers was initially seen as just a harmless kids kids' cartoon about environmentalism with Green Aesops galore, but eventually those the kids who watched it grew up and realized environmental politics are far more complicated than cartoon supervillains polluting the earth For the Evulz. It's Admittedly, this was a conscious decision on the writers' part so that kids wouldn't think less of their parents who might work for such companies, but it's now widely believed that the show did its viewers a disservice by taking all nuance out of the issues it discussed.

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I kind of doubt it, as I feel that was mostly in the 2000's and more people like it, not to mention the knowledge of what actual Big Oil/Coal corporations do make the villains look downright subtle.

The first sentence at least can be cut. Any moral taught by an educational show aimed at kids will have various nuances left out.

Honestly, 2016 was the watershed moment where cartoonish villainy isn’t unrealistic, so Captain Planet is more likely to be vindicated than condemned.

Edited by Shadao on Sep 17th 2023 at 12:53:22 PM

I've also heard that kids at the time did take its message to heart and that led to its cancellation since the actual people responsible for these issues (the corporations who funded it to start with) didn't want to deal with it.

Granted that was on Twitter so that could just be wild assumptions.

When I've seen Captain Planet brought up recently, I wouldn't really say it's vindicated. People seem to feel that having supervillains be responsible for pollution and environmental issues really just oversimplified the issue and if anything took the blame off of corporations.

Captain Planet is definitely not Condemned by history. it has to be something that was once loved that is now meant with a reaction like "who actually likes that?"

Captain Planet doesn't really recieve that level of derision.

I dunno if it'd violate TV Tropes' policy on NSFW content, but I'd have to wonder if the Girls Gone Wild series of videos would be considered Condemned by History since a lot of dirt on Joe Francis has been unvealed.

Nah, opinion on Girls Gone Wild has always been mostly negative. Even when it was new, people said Francis was exploiting the girls.

Ukrainian Red Cross

Would Overwatch count? During its first couple of years, it was super popular and beloved, but nowadays is viewed much more negatively due to various hated changes, the lore completely grinding to a halt, and the many PR disasters Blizzard has gone through since around 2018.

Do people hate the original Overwatch retroactively? Otherwise, it's a case of a franchise being burned to the ground by sequels.

Yeah I think it doesn't count since players still love old Overwatch.

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Even Overwatch 2’s harshest critics have said that the fun game from 2016 is still there; it’s just being managed terribly and is associated with Blizzard.

Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?

It might count as Overshadowed by Controversy if it isn't already there.

Do you think that the Aladdin can be included here. Here is my skeleton:

• Aladdin: When it first came out in 1992, the movie was, while not without its controversies (e.g., [{Fake Nationality casting primarily White American and British actors]] such as Robin Williams and Gilbert Gottfried as supposedly Middle Eastern actors, significant Artistic License with the cultures of various Muslim countries, etc.), well received by critics, to the point of winning two Academy Awards for Best Original Score and Best Original Song. In addition, the film itself was to some extent accepted by some Middle Eastern viewers at the time, as it was one of the few mainstream Western depictions that presented their people in a positive light in spite of its own use of Orientalist stereotypes.
  • Over the years, however, Aladdin has been subject to retroactive criticism from both Middle Eastern and Western viewers for a number of reasons:
    • First, there was the aforementioned Orientalist stereotypes about the Middle East, as a lot of non-Middle Eastern (particularly White American) viewers who grew up watching Aladdin as children came of age and began learning about both the Middle East (and larger Muslim world) as they actually exist and the stereotypes that Western works had long used to characterize such regions. This had not been helped by the War on Terror (which began a decade after Aladdin was released AND was the time period that a lot of the children who grew up with the movie came of age), which prompted a larger conversation about the Western world (particularly the United States)' relationship with Muslim-majority countries.
    • Second, there is the aforementioned casting of non-Middle Eastern actors such as Williams and Gottfried as the Genie and Iago, respectively, and the very Westernized designs of the movie's leads, Aladdin and Jasmine (especially when contrasted with the stereotypically Arab features of the movie's Big Bad, Jafar). The criticisms against such character designs and castings largely took place during a larger debate about Hollywood's history of depicting people of color during the 2010s, which was when a lot of the kids who grew up watching Aladdin attended college and began learning about the Middle East.

Never heard of widespread controversy and Aladdin is still a beloved movie, so I'd vote no, even if those points could theoretically cause controversy.

Edited by PhiSat on Sep 21st 2023 at 11:24:40 AM

Oissu!

Aladdin is still a beloved classic. Sure its portrayal of Middle East aged poorly, but still. Hard no.

Edited by generation81 on Sep 21st 2023 at 1:32:51 PM

I've heard those criticisms, but yeah it's still a widely loved movie.

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I agree that it doesn't belong on the page. There's some Values Dissonance, and some elements were iffy even back then, but the film is still liked overall. If it were Condemned by History, one of the following would likely have happened: (a) the remake flopped instead of grossing a billion dollars, or (b) Disney buried Aladdin instead of remaking it.

Edited by MathsAngelicVersion on Sep 21st 2023 at 10:34:14 AM

Would Song of the South count by that same measure?

Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?

Song of the South was controversial and criticized as racist since the day it came out, so it wouldn't count.

There has to be an initial period where something is widely-liked and accepted before people turn on it, for whatever reason, to qualify for CBH.

I heavily doubt it was anywhere close to being more than a Vocal Minority criticizing the movie for being racist back then.

Why waste time when you can see the last sunset last?

I mean, yeah the film won awards, the lead actor won an award IIRC, the film had Splash Mountain, and Zippity Doo Da was a well-liked song (and still is, independent of its origins).

Edited by WarJay77 on Sep 22nd 2023 at 2:10:06 PM

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part of me wonders if the name Condemned by History is attracting new confusion along the lines of these questions, compared to the name Deader Than Disco which had different issues but was pretty unambiguous on what "dead" meant versus the ambiguity in "condemned". this might be something to explore further in a separate thread, but it should be obvious that things like Aladdin or Song of the South weren't "widely loved then widely hated" like everyone understands disco was; even with the racism within them that's rightfully critiqued and condemned, aspects of them still permeate pop culture. both of them do definitely fit within Values Dissonance, and at least for Song of the South, it's already famous as a case of Bury Your Art.

Edited by NoUsername on Sep 22nd 2023 at 1:02:45 AM

For what it's worth, The Birth of a Nation had a backlash even when it was new, but that film still counts as CBH for being so influential and popular at the time.