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Condemned by History cleanup thread

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Condemned by History is a problem trope for many reasons. It leads to edit warring and confusion over what qualifies. In this thread we'll look for bad examples, and look for feedback. Here are the guidelines for this trope:

  1. The franchise has to be truly popular and loved at first. Things that are So Bad, It's Horrible don't count.
  2. Simply losing popularity isn't enough. We need to see an actual backlash, with liking it being considered bizarre. Otherwise, every not-so-famous film or concluded television series would be here.

Let's go!

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2024 at 4:23:01 AM

plakythebirb The Unwilling Cycle from The Deep South (Handed A Sword) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Unwilling Cycle
#2876: Jun 23rd 2023 at 3:38:46 PM

[up] How accurate the documentary is isn't the point of CBH: it's whether the response to it has went from "very positive" to "very negative".

Welcome To Ideals' World
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#2877: Jun 23rd 2023 at 5:56:50 PM

Didn't we discuss Super Size Me before and we agreed to keep?

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Scifimaster92 from Manitoba, Canada Since: Oct, 2016
#2878: Jun 23rd 2023 at 6:11:54 PM

At the very least, we could acknowledge the fact that its sequel is nowadays generally regarded as superior.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
StarManatee Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros? from The house in the ocean Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros?
#2880: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:15:07 PM

There’s an example in the Real Life section for Richard Nixon. Since it’s agreed we shouldn’t add non-creator real humans, should it be removed? You could say that it’s about his presidency, which could qualify.

He/Him | Elsewhere (2017)
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#2881: Jun 23rd 2023 at 11:24:47 PM

I think it'd fall under the Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment either way.

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#2882: Jun 24th 2023 at 4:55:08 AM

Oreimo was the vanguard of romantic-subtext-with-little-sister-genre, it got a lot of imitators, and the genre as a whole fell into disgrace after 2018's My Sister, My Writer, widely cited as they year's worst show. The general understanding is that trying to accommodate both general audiences (or at least otaku in general) and those looking for outright porn produced a mess that pleased neither. Japan still makes little sister stuff, but it's pornography with overt incest for a narrower market. So however Oreimo is still viewed, it was part of a trend that audiences turned against.

As if to mark the death of the genre, in 2019 we got Do You Love Your Mom and Her Two-Hit Multi-Target Attacks?, where a teenage boy has romantic subtext with his mother.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#2883: Jun 24th 2023 at 5:08:23 PM

More of an observation than a question, but I find it interesting that, despite Crunk being listed on the page, we managed to get a very well-received crunk hit last year with GloRilla's "F.N.F. (Let's Go)".

ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#2884: Jun 24th 2023 at 5:30:46 PM

Honestly the entry for Crunk on the main Cb H page is pretty bashy. The main page for Crunk itself is also more snarky than is necessary.

Could probably do with a rewrite to be a bit more neutral.

SpectralTime Since: Apr, 2009
#2885: Jun 24th 2023 at 7:01:50 PM

[up][up][up] What he said, with the further proviso that the cut was made with minimal discussion less than a day after the suggestion to cut it was made, which strikes me as way, way too fast with way too little oversight.

StarManatee Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros? from The house in the ocean Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros?
#2886: Jun 25th 2023 at 12:28:13 AM

Our part on LiveJournal seems to be about the website getting worse rather than people seeing it as worse in retrospect. Cut?

Edited by StarManatee on Jun 25th 2023 at 8:28:25 PM

He/Him | Elsewhere (2017)
Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
StarManatee Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros? from The house in the ocean Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros?
#2888: Jun 25th 2023 at 6:27:54 AM

Do I need a consensus to cut it or can i just do it now?

He/Him | Elsewhere (2017)
andrewthetroper from ...mislim, iz Srbije Since: May, 2022
#2889: Jun 25th 2023 at 7:48:41 AM

Do it now. It's not a retroactive look at Live Journal, but an actual worsening of the site - more fit for Seasonal Rot or similar.

The pessimist sees a dark tunnel, the optimist sees a light, the realist sees two lights and the engineer sees three idiots.
Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#2890: Jun 25th 2023 at 8:51:56 AM

From the live action film section - a quick search can't immediately find any record of this one being discussed:

  • Steven Seagal made a name for himself in the early '90s as the star of gritty action movies like Out for Justice and Under Siege, typically playing stoic badasses who fought against criminals and terrorists by using Aikido martial arts. With a string of box office hits under his belt, the media was quick to build him up as the next big Hollywood action star. However, Seagal started losing his box-office momentum in the mid-'90s following On Deadly Ground (his directorial debut) and Under Siege 2: Dark Territory. Critics began catching on to his limited acting abilities and film choices, and audiences gravitated towards similar films made by Jackie Chan and Will Smith. His fate was sealed in the 2000s by a combination of reports about his abusive on-set behavior (most notably, multiple claims of sexual harassment), a pattern of near-pathological lies about his career, early life, ancestry, and accomplishments coming forward, and his ties to organized crime, The New Russia's government, and Vladimir Putin, which put a dent in his "all-American badass" image (made worse by the propaganda he did in Russian-occupied zones of Ukraine during Russia's war of aggression there in 2022). Another notable hit to his "badass" credentials was growing disdain for aikido itself; the system was meant for personal enlightenment and understanding nonviolence and is known for being largely ineffective for self-defense or combat sports, which is ironic when Seagal's onscreen fighting style was known for its brutality. Finally, Seagal went into a very noticeable physical decline that made it harder to take him seriously as an Action Hero, especially as it took a toll on the fight scenes in his films; he famously used stunt doubles even just for shots of his character standing still.

    By the mid 2000s, Seagal had burned every bridge in Hollywood and retreated to doing Direct-to-Video flicks mostly filmed in Eastern Europe, which were slammed for their extremely repetitive nature, incoherent stories, frequent production errors, rock-bottom production values and less-than-successful attempts at covering up Seagal's stunt double. Nowadays, Seagal is widely seen as a laughingstock, a product of '90s edge culture who lacked any of the charm or talent of his contemporaries. While other action stars of the era like Dolph Lundgren, Michael Jai White and Jean-Claude Van Damme have experienced revivals and are still highly respected and popular among action fans, Seagal has not gained any such reassessment. Whatever praise his earlier films get these days usually concerns the style and technical competence supplied by the filmmakers behind them and the supporting casts, not Seagal himself.

Apart from the Wall of Text and the elements that are closer to Role-Ending Misdemeanor territory, as they're not actually about the work... is there much worth saving here? Or do we cut as misuse?

StarManatee Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros? from The house in the ocean Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros?
#2891: Jun 25th 2023 at 8:53:06 AM

That can be cut. Don’t see anything salvageable.

He/Him | Elsewhere (2017)
ITTrpr20 Since: Jan, 2018
#2892: Jun 27th 2023 at 12:33:24 AM

Somebody added The Force Awakens and honestly while it's definitely been controversial especially with how divisive (to say the least) the new trilogy has been I highly doubt it qualifies since a lot of people still consider it a good movie and it's mainly the plot threads left hanging by Last Jedi that made it retroactively controversial, what do you guys think?

Siegfried1337 Calabash. from The Eastern Luminant Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Will you go out with me to the End?
Calabash.
#2893: Jun 27th 2023 at 1:44:17 AM

It still is good. Also, didn't we agreed to not put it in there last time?

Eh, good enough.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#2894: Jun 27th 2023 at 3:25:22 AM

Yeah a very common opinion is TFA was a good-if-flawed start to the trilogy that got let down by divisive-to-crappy sequels, and is thus the most positively received on average.

StarManatee Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros? from The house in the ocean Since: Jun, 2023 Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
Peter Igloo killed Ben Quadinaros?
#2895: Jun 27th 2023 at 7:40:55 AM

Yeah, cut that.

He/Him | Elsewhere (2017)
DDRMASTERM do you wanna have a bad time? from Someplace, Utah, USA Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
do you wanna have a bad time?
#2896: Jun 30th 2023 at 9:31:50 PM

I'm wondering if it would be valid or not, but would the Guinness World Records count? Maybe it's just the type of content I watch, but I've seen it be heavily criticized in for having very low verification standards that often just seems to be about who has the money to claim an absurd record.

Edited by DDRMASTERM on Jul 1st 2023 at 7:01:13 AM

BocchiTheRock Since: Feb, 2023
#2897: Jun 30th 2023 at 10:48:09 PM

[up] I wouldn't say so, they are still popular and receive a good amount of likes on social media. The average person likely wouldn't even hear about the controversy about them.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#2898: Jun 30th 2023 at 10:48:54 PM

I've heard plenty of bad, but the fact that people are still trying to spread awareness implies that it's not a common opinion.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
DDRMASTERM do you wanna have a bad time? from Someplace, Utah, USA Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
do you wanna have a bad time?
#2899: Jul 1st 2023 at 6:03:34 AM

[up]/[up][up] Fair. Better to run it by here than to jump the gun adding it directly.

dms3456 Since: Oct, 2021
#2900: Jul 1st 2023 at 9:30:09 AM

I think that 4kids was overhated by the public because of bad business practices.


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