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Mami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#164201: Jul 26th 2023 at 12:49:14 AM

Yeah there lies the issue lol. I felt more in the sense of Kirsch's grand plan since he seemed able to proceed just fine even if most of the gods had died. But then the question would be how would a race of immortal people who had spent all their lives thinking the gods were the greatest take this change?

Edited by Mami on Jul 26th 2023 at 8:50:15 PM

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys
Jmauro from Australia, Darumbal land Since: Jan, 2023 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
#164202: Jul 26th 2023 at 12:49:56 AM

Definitely agree that it's the first I truly had complex feeling about.

At least the story. The previous ones tended to rely on the characters themselves.

Edited by Jmauro on Jul 27th 2023 at 5:52:22 AM

This is fine.
TPPR10 Craving for fish from up north Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: is commanded to— WANK!
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#164204: Jul 26th 2023 at 12:55:24 AM

[up]Considering I'm openly a misanthrope, that makes way too much sense, my hatred of the Fae ultimately due to their reminding me of the worst of humanity.

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Jmauro from Australia, Darumbal land Since: Jan, 2023 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
#164205: Jul 26th 2023 at 12:55:30 AM

Two of the worst characters in the story were humans, after all.

This is fine.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#164206: Jul 26th 2023 at 12:59:22 AM

"Lots of people sucked so the entire place deserved thr painful death" isn't misanthropic, it's sadistic.

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#164207: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:03:47 AM

My feelings weren't that complex, place was too white for my tastes (I'm only half joking).

The one place where Fairy Britain is genuinely worse than Brexit Britain.

But then the question would be how would a race of immortal people who had spent all their lives thinking the gods were the greatest take this change?

It's not exactly clear, but it feels more like what Kirschtaria was going to attempt was to yoink all the people from the Bleached Earth who would have lived in the territory 'taken over' by the Atlantic Tree and ascend them to godhood. Not the people from the Lostbelt itself so much as the people who would have lived there if not for the Bleaching.

Edited by math792d on Jul 26th 2023 at 10:05:11 AM

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Mami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#164208: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:04:15 AM

I could go on, like with Ector, Melusine, the Goblins, etc, but my point is that by time the Lostbelt has ended, the only remotely sympathetic characters have all died, either directly because of or indirectly due to the actions of the Fae

Now now that isn't simply is not true, how could you forget Mike. Even then we're told of all that was happening in the midst of the apocalypse and how even in then there were still bits of kindness in the world.

They're like eternal children, a few were able to blossom into adults (humans) and become kinder but when it comes down to it you're trying to force whimsical beings to fulfill the roles not made for them. Of course this still makes them responsible for their own actions, just like Morgan is responsible for her breach of contract and Melusine and Barghest are responsible for all the innocent people they were complacent in the mass murder of!

Edited by Mami on Jul 26th 2023 at 9:08:36 AM

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys
RebelFalcon ULTRANumb from ... (Private)
#164209: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:05:28 AM

[up][up][up]I'm a tad sadistic I'll admit. I like seeing horrible people in media get what they deserve. So considering how much that Fae proved to be despicable, watching them get karmic deaths is catharthic.

[up]And said kindness usually resulted in them either dying protecting others or getting backstabbed. End result is still the same: the genuinely sympathetic are already dead, the unsympathetic are still alive or about to die, and the land made out of literal corpses is imploding. So excuse me for being happy when the genuine assholes actually die at the foot of their own hubris.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Jul 26th 2023 at 4:07:18 AM

Rodimus: Self-sacrifice, Magnus— It's cheap. It's a cheap way out. I need to live so I can make amends.
Mami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#164210: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:10:06 AM

[up]And said kindness usually resulted in them either dying protecting others or getting backstabbed

That was not stated in the text blurb of the apocalypse, what on earth are you talking about! Also you have once again completely ignored bartender Mike, stop that!

Edited by Mami on Jul 26th 2023 at 9:14:59 AM

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#164211: Jul 26th 2023 at 1:13:08 AM

"Everyone that did bad things in a tragedy deserves to die and I will enjoy watching it" is kind of uncomfortable, especially when you're basically pointing at the group whose flaw mostly leading to this is "fey and impulsive" for the most part. And the ones that aren't have basically shackled that with obligation.

Nouct over the front from an east coast Since: Sep, 2014 Relationship Status: Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
over the front
#164212: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:06:05 AM

Tiny update for the music player since OST VI released today.

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#164213: Jul 26th 2023 at 2:56:36 AM

Kirsch's plan is just pure nonsense but let's not dwell too hard on it clearly. Like he didn't dwell too hard on Chaos popping up to say hi. [lol]

math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#164214: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:00:23 AM

His plan is fairly consistent. "Save humanity from itself by elevating it into a more powerful and intelligent/wise species."

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Mami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#164215: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:04:53 AM

Yeah Kirsch's plan is based off optimism that giving humans the tools to trial and error without consequence will help them eventually work through their issues. It's honestly a kind plan all things considered but he also doesn't really take into account why someone would possibly violently reject it (though it's not like he could have known Beryl's a weirdo who thinks mutual abuse is how romance works).

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#164216: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:05:19 AM

Yes, give up 7 billion as a lost cause and elevate 10 million plus whatever is on Morgan's world and maybe the Ocelomeh.

Part of what's bugging me a lot here is that... Nothing is really said of what's inside/outside LB 5 as a world. LB 1 is frozen, LB 2 is frozen/burned, LB 3 does actually say, LB 4 is [shrug emoji] and LB 6 plus LB 7 are dead outside as well.

Edited by alekos23 on Jul 26th 2023 at 1:07:12 PM

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#164217: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:09:19 AM

"Everyone that did bad things in a tragedy deserves to die and I will enjoy watching it" is kind of uncomfortable, especially when you're basically pointing at the group whose flaw mostly leading to this is "fey and impulsive" for the most part. And the ones that aren't have basically shackled that with obligation.

This is exactly why the collective fandom mindset that everything in Britain needed to burn and die aside from a select few is so off-putting to me.The game is literally against that attitude and straight up tells you its wrong, and that attitude is what collectively led to Faerie Britain's downfall to begin with.

People are more than within their right to interpret a story however they wish and maybe Nasu did go a little too far with the depraved nature of the collective population, but it's honestly astounding how much either missed or refuse to acknowledge the point of the story because they're too deep in their feelings that their Anime waifus got killed.

[up][up][up] That's a horrible plan even not accounting for Beryl. It's insanely idealistic and assumes a lot about humanity.

Edited by BlackYakuzu94 on Jul 26th 2023 at 6:11:28 AM

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#164218: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:13:02 AM

What can you expect but idealism from a man whose name sounds like a cake?

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
#164220: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:22:03 AM

Oh jeez, he is a rich white guy...

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#164221: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:22:38 AM

That's a horrible plan even not accounting for Beryl. It's insanely idealistic and assumes a lot about humanity.

It does. It assumes that the human species is on a self-destructive dead-end road and our development up to now is a consequence of error. He outright says as much every time you encounter him. His point is that the human species is dooming itself because there's a minority who will not stop seeking power at any cost and will hurt all the rest to get their way. In a world without the gods to hold power over us, some people have taken their place and decided to facilitate the ecological destruction of the species.

Kirschtaria's idealism is not in assuming that human nature is devoid of violence - he has experienced that violence firsthand after all - it's that assuming that elevating them to an equal playing field in power and perspective will change their nature. If the weak have the same capacity for facilitating change as the previously-strong, the previously-strong are outnumbered.

There's a bit in Tunguska where Taigong Wang talks about how humanity as a species has a lot of karmic red in its ledger from the way it's been abusing its fellow inhabitants of Planet Earth in order to facilitate its own evolution and that the ending of Tunguska is paying back a little bit of that karmic debt. That perspective is also part of the "make everyone into demigods" plan - elevate the human perspective outside of our own heads.

Like, he is an idealist in that he believes in the inherent good of the human species because he's witnessed the altruism of the utterly powerless - his whole world is built on the idea that good people shouldn't be trampled underfoot by cruel systems.

Whether or not that's a "good plan" the text doesn't argue for or against, but I think analogizing it to the rich people trying to escape the consequences of their actions by building slave colonies on Mars is reductive when the plan literally hinges on him dying to achieve the ascension of humanity. There's nothing in it for Kirschtaria.

Edited by math792d on Jul 26th 2023 at 12:27:25 PM

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#164222: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:28:57 AM

And he proceeds to trample on 6 billion worth of innocents for the sake of a few. Well, not him personally, he's totally against the bad guy here, he's a    good    guy after all.

Mami Since: Oct, 2017 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#164223: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:34:03 AM

I don't think that part really matters honestly, he was under contract there isn't a lot he could do and the moment he made it obvious that he was opposing the alien god it struck back. Ultimately he just did what he felt was within his means with the life he had and he was content dying as a normal human while leaving other people to work through the whole thing.

I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#164225: Jul 26th 2023 at 3:38:13 AM

I mean, whether or not he is depends on how you read the consequences, but the whole reason why he's fighting you in Olympus is because he's not so absolutely ironclad that he believes it's his way or the highway. That confrontation is about him trying to find proof that his way is the best way, and you pretty soundly beat him, so he hands the future of humanity over to you.

And then the tree gets Muramasa'd and the whole thing goes pear-shaped. I feel like people forget that Beryl wasn't the catalyst for that collapse, the fact that Olga had his number was.

But reading it as White Guy Altruism fundamentally misunderstands the entire arc and Kirschtaria's character. "Type-Moon fans can't read" is supposed to be a joke.

Edited by math792d on Jul 26th 2023 at 12:39:43 PM

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.

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