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deludedmusings Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Jun 29th 2020 at 6:12:46 PM

Characters more than anything else. Aside from a few moments they just never really appealed.

Although Ohpelia's precious Kouhai moment did get me right in the feels.

Holding a grudge is allowing someone to live inside your head rent free.
Jun 29th 2020 at 6:14:18 PM

Is anybody else experiencing NP voices not triggering?

Gacha Is A Lie.
vicarious vicarious from NC, USA
vicarious
Jun 29th 2020 at 6:15:50 PM

Im not feeling strongly either way about this LB.

BlackYakuzu94 CHADhan Player. from Easy Coast/NY Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
CHADhan Player.
Jun 29th 2020 at 6:18:13 PM

The Prose is kind of excessive.

And it has lot of the early game "Senpai we have to stop and kill giants" useless nodes. Anastasia did well to avoid doing that and made sure every node served some type of purpose.

And why do have to cut to Fou saying his catchphrase every two seconds...

I don't hate it, and it's certainly got a lot of highpoints for sure, but I can see why people have their issues.

A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Comun Translation Trainwreck Enthusiast from Lostbelt 7 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Jun 29th 2020 at 6:34:18 PM

Anastasia? The one with textless nodes? The one meat collection and golem material collection sidequests?

Jun 29th 2020 at 6:44:55 PM

I thought that LB 2 had its issues but when it got into the swing of things I enjoyed it well enough.

TitanJump Beast VIII from the Grand Grail Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Beast VIII
Jun 29th 2020 at 7:53:17 PM

Not made it through yet. (Chapter 14 now)

And after my first encounter with "Mr.Sunday", I've decided to slow down my progress through the Lostbelt.

The reason?

I have not enough Archers to hit him hard enough once his skills kicks in.

So I will have to do some EXP farming first to increase the numbers of back-up archers...

Madness: an author's most magnificent muse and house maid.
RainehDaze METANOIA from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
METANOIA
Jun 29th 2020 at 7:59:02 PM

Shouldn't need that many, I think my archer roster was crap when I did LB 2 on JP—basically, I only did much serious grinding after getting from Okeanos to post-LB 2 in order to do Oniland. Hell, this is my JP Archer roster. I can't even remember where I picked Archuria up, so maybe I had her, but Prisma Code wasn't rerun until after Oniland, I didn't get Arjuna until a spook rolling for Sitonai, didn't roll Moriarty until he got that new costume on JP, got Gil NY after Oniland...

Ergo, I cleared it with no archer above level 60 if I'd raised Arash. I might have had Archuria. It is a mystery.

Uh, basically? Team composition and strategy is going to matter more and more from here on than number of Servants with a type bonus.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jun 29th 2020 at 4:04:16 PM

Create a history, with the light God could not know
mrbits Mochi-Doughnut-man
Mochi-Doughnut-man
Jun 29th 2020 at 8:06:04 PM

Anastasia had issues with "useless nodes" too, but it was easier for me to deal with since it had better enemy variety.

  • LB1
    • Ice Lizards
    • Yaga
    • Ice Crabs
    • Small Demon Boars
    • Giant Demon Boars
    • Hyrdas/Orochis
    • Oprichniki

  • LB2
    • Two nearly indistinguishable kinds of Ice Lions
    • Pallet swap Giants
    • Valkyries
    • Seeds

Edited by mrbits on Jun 29th 2020 at 11:11:28 AM

TitanJump Beast VIII from the Grand Grail Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Beast VIII
Jun 29th 2020 at 8:10:58 PM

[up][up] For the first encounter with "Mr.Sunday", I only used two archers.

Fujino as the front-line one, and EMIYA as the back-up, with Waver and Mash as support-units and a Support-Gilgamesh for more firepower.

...and Angra Manyu in the far back.

I still barely made it through with EMIYA on 34 HP once the battle was over.

So it's either train up the archers so they can hit harder, or wait for command-spells to muscle through the fight.

Madness: an author's most magnificent muse and house maid.
Jun 29th 2020 at 8:13:58 PM

In a world where almost everything that isnt one of those is dead variety isn't something I expect. At least with Yaga its cause beasts can survive the cold.

Resileafs I actually wanted to be Resileaf
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
Jun 29th 2020 at 9:18:33 PM

You know, I can't help but think that when Surtr tells Ophelia that the next time she looks at the sun, he's going to show her his flaming sword...

He could have easily answered her question on if he was talking about his noble phantasm by "My d***"

RainehDaze METANOIA from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
METANOIA
Jun 29th 2020 at 9:21:30 PM

[up][up][up] Look at 3* ST options and focus more on supporting one DPS than running as much firepower as possible. Different buffs are multiplicative rather than additive, so once you combine that with higher base damage on NP from being ST (and the higher NP level), it can make a shocking amount of difference. It's why Euryale is favoured for dealing with random male Sabers: she's ST, has a separate arts buff after strengthening, a pair of charm effects and charge drain, and her NP has high base damage with the level giving it a massive extra damage to male Servants. Lots of stuff working together there.

Or the way the buster crit meta works: Merlin has atk+, crit+, buster+ (and makes stars), which stacked twice become horrendously strong. Waver+Merlin is also good, though less of an absurd juggernaut. Skadi does a similar thing, where the bonus to quick cards means all the stars and insane NP Regen, whilst the quick crits are specifically buffed to hell.

Synergy is the name of the game.

Also, though this is less important, a lot of Servants have weird curves to how their stats increase, and it can turn out the raw stat increase over the last two ascensions can be really bad. Some on the other hand have most of their stats at the start and end... none of which is spelled out anywhere. There's a reason the game has so much data mining every release.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jun 29th 2020 at 5:22:11 PM

Create a history, with the light God could not know
Nouct Probably overthinking this post from Studying abroad Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Probably overthinking this post
Jun 29th 2020 at 9:58:43 PM

Holmes interlude summary

  • Still sidestepping the "Holmes: real or not?" question.
  • Jekyll's hanging out with him, doesn't want to talk about his past connection to Moriarty or Holmes because he's afraid of bringing out Hyde.
  • Holmes mentions that he knew about the Magic Association but never did much with them (lines up with the Jekyll short story where Holmes comments that he won't investigate Jack the Ripper because that's Clock Tower business).
  • Turns out the Speckled Band was magecraft in Nasuland, so Watson had to censor everything to avoid Clock Tower wrath and ditto for the Hound of the Baskervilles as it was related to the Wild Hunt.
  • Blavatsky shows up, they talk about her past (read: the Blavatsky short story) and she flat-out asks him how he got summoned and travelled to the Camelot singularity. Then Moriarty shows up to shut down that avenue of discussion and immediately starts ranting about how Holmes is terrible at being the impartial ruler he claimed to be in the trial quest by trying to be seigi no mikata, while Holmes fires back about all the shady stuff Moriarty does in event stories.
  • Jekyll gets stressed out so Blavatsky forces the two to hash out in the simulator, but then Moriarty deliberately pushes Jekyll into being Hyde so he has backup.
  • Moriarty flees via smoke bomb, Holmes explains that being a detective and ally of justice are linked. He also considers himself and Chaldea to be morally in the right with destroying the Lostbelts as it's a matter of survival.
  • When Blavatsky and Holmes are alone, she asks him if he's hiding something. He admits yep, he's got lots of secrets, even ones he doesn't understand, but what he said about his stance is no lie. Then she consider its seems like that line of thought can be construed to do something evil or betray Ritsuka. Holmes denies that but doesn't actually mention Ritsuka while discussing this. Holmes swears by Blavatsky's beautiful final moments in the Himalayas that it's the truth. Ends with Fou kicking him in the head.

"This is tremendous content, where's my phone"
RainehDaze METANOIA from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
METANOIA
Jun 29th 2020 at 10:12:02 PM

Still sidestepping the "Holmes: real or not?" question.

Because it's not even a question at this stage, there was never any evidence for being fictional, and every time anything more comes out that involves real (within the context of the setting, obviously the Clock Tower exists etc.) organisations or the entire notion of censorship or rewriting stories it becomes increasingly less likely that the fictional case even makes sense. We have seen what happens if you summon an entirely fictional entity as a Servant: Sasaki is there. Even then it found the nearest person. Ditto for Shinjuku, where there's still some basis for phantoms (and they get attached to something more concrete anyway...)

You do not get an increasingly convoluted amount of backstory and information that was never recorded in said fictional accounts, which would mean that the entity based upon this fiction is somehow existing in some unprovoked loop of self-invention that would run entirely contrary to the notion of being base upon a work of fiction. I mean seriously, a fictional character saying the stories that they're based on are wrong because this other fictional character had to censor the accounts, based on absolutely nothing at all, and which somehow requires the hypothesis that the accounts that lead to them being a Heroic Spirit ex nihilo are also invalid? What.

It's Occam's Razor: it requires increasingly more steps to try and concoct any explanation for how these characters are fictional and other literary characters are not, so the answer that makes more sense should be assumed. If canon finally decides to say it's not, that's a different matter, but convoluted and inconsistent theories are really not worth bringing up at every chance.

Seriously, the simple reason for why it's not addressed is that the writers don't think it's really a question. It leads to requiring that the characters we met in the London singularity be fictional, even though they weren't even dead at that point to become Servants. FFS, they did address it once: Holmes made a whole thing about how maybe Heroic Spirits are fictional, and then in the epilogue (away from us), he and Moriarty basically had a chat about how that's not actually true and he's a troll. It's already been answered. tongue

Edited by RainehDaze on Jun 29th 2020 at 6:23:35 PM

Create a history, with the light God could not know
TPPR10 The Smug Returns from Out of Nowhere Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
The Smug Returns
Jun 29th 2020 at 10:40:36 PM

[up] Then why do they need to bring it up with Holmes? Jekyll was a real person, Frankenstein was a real person alongside his creation, Phantom was a real person, or at least there was a basic to him, Lobo did exist thanks to being mentioned by Nrvnqsr Chaos etc. But for some reason they have to question if Holmes was ever a real person. No one would raise an eyebrow about Holmes' existence if the game itself didn't ask the question.

Edited by TPPR10 on Jun 29th 2020 at 8:45:03 PM

Now with a smugness slider
RainehDaze METANOIA from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
METANOIA
Jun 29th 2020 at 10:45:52 PM

Because generally the person bringing it up is Holmes, who is, it should be obvious, present a lot and has far too much enjoyment messing with people. And gets called out on it.

We otherwise run into a paradox: we know that Jekyll is real, courtesy London. We know he knows these two. So, the simple explanation is that we're being messed with, and the reason it comes up is the reason it's regarded as fictional and in heavily censored form: that's what Holmes wants.

He's kind of a gadfly and all.

Honestly? If it's meant to be significant rather than Holmes being Holmes, then both obvious options would have to be wrong, because this is TOO in your face. I would assume that something like that would actually mean he's someone else who is ALSO Holmes.

Plus they'd never answer something like that in an interlude given main character status and all.

Edited by RainehDaze on Jun 29th 2020 at 6:50:34 PM

Create a history, with the light God could not know
Jun 29th 2020 at 10:53:34 PM

Or, its more likely a clue related to the fact he isnt a normal servant and something else is mixed with him.

TPPR10 The Smug Returns from Out of Nowhere Relationship Status: Squeeeeeeeeeeeee!
The Smug Returns
Jun 29th 2020 at 11:01:08 PM

[up][up] Is he really the one who brings it up himself? Like in his Trial Quest, it is Mash who asks the question, only for Holmes to answer with a question.

Now with a smugness slider
RainehDaze METANOIA from Scotland Relationship Status: Mu
METANOIA
Jun 29th 2020 at 11:10:16 PM

Followed by Moriarty calling him on his logic being totally wrong and how he could have given counter examples. The point there was deflection for some purpose to avoid further questions. So we have... one example of someone else bringing it up.

And then we've got all the other evidence that would be inconsistent with not existing. "Was Mash right" is really the wrong take away from that because it doesn't make sense.

Again, simplest explanation. Everything is consistent with Holmes existing and NOT with it all being fictitious, consequently it would be pointing to something different.

And we would never get a straight answer to something like that in an interlude on a Limited character.

(For a meta-narrative approach, a mystery centred around the great detective should not have an answer of "literally the first thing Mash asked", because that would be sad)

Edited by RainehDaze on Jun 29th 2020 at 7:30:00 PM

Create a history, with the light God could not know
Comun Translation Trainwreck Enthusiast from Lostbelt 7 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Jun 29th 2020 at 11:32:36 PM

Holmes is sorta mentally conditioned to be a Mr. Exposition and, as expect of his character, he claims the only times he's not explaining things are when he is not sure of his answer. Holmes just said in this interlude that he doesn't know things about himself. He doesn't know who summoned him, how and why.

With that in mind, here's what could be a pay-off to all this build up:

  • Option A) He's got more than enough cross-checked memories to know for sure that Sherlock Holmes existed but he has absolutely no way of proving, to himself or to us, that he is actually Sherlock Holmes.
  • Option B) The answer "Is Holmes fictional?" is "Yes and no". Surtr recognized he was mixed, so if Holmes is real and the thing he's mixed with is fictional, there's no straightforward answer.
  • Option C) He's taking the "the Age of Gods was reality and the Age of Man is a layer of fiction plastered upon it" lore WAY too literally and claiming everyone born after Solomon's era as fictional.

At the moment, I'm placing bets on B but all options sound very plausible, at least in my head.

Jun 30th 2020 at 1:24:56 AM

I mean, he's not wrong about the last one.

The Lostbelts even prove this. When planted on the ground they become true and what was once fictional is now real. What was impossible now exists as fact, even when they vanish, proof of their existence lives on.

Epic of Remnant was all about Fiction becoming reality too in some form. With the last one Raum seeking to not only bring forth beings from beyond the great tree of time to manifest so Lovecrafts Outer Gods become Real, but to make the Christian concept of Hell true to "save" humanity. Too bad its a literal hell on earth he sought.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Jun 30th 2020 at 1:26:38 AM

Nouct Probably overthinking this post from Studying abroad Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Probably overthinking this post
Mami Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
Jun 30th 2020 at 2:55:26 AM

Sieg is so earnest and adorable, I wish he'd appear in even more

Unrepentantly thirsty for bishounens
Shlugo_the_great King of Burgers Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
King of Burgers
Jun 30th 2020 at 3:29:36 AM

I have to roll my eyes at people thinking they're "onto Holmes" after the game spoon-feeds them "hints" about how shady he is. For me it just seems like an obvious misdirection, like with "Roman is actually evil" in part 1.

"the Age of Gods was reality and the Age of Man is a layer of fiction plastered upon it"

The situation with Lostbelt does resemble how Age of Man works with Rhongobongo. Hopefully they expand on that in the next Lostbelt.

Come and get your burgers!

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