TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Captain America: Civil War (with SPOILERS!) Discussion and Whatever Thread

Go To

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#901: May 11th 2016 at 2:49:42 PM

He built a Death Star in the comics although to be fair that was less due to a midlife crisis and more due to finding out that the universe was ending.

So similar to a midlife crisis I guess

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#902: May 11th 2016 at 3:25:03 PM

Ah, I just saw the Movie and here are my 2 cents:

  • Zemo shows the flaw in Hydra's plan back in Winter Soldier: Hydra is a Generic Doomsday Villain, hoping to hold the world at gun point. There would always be someone pissed off enough to screw with even the bad guy's plans.
    • Hydra is thankfully a Disc-One Final Boss in the MCU. Thanos is on his way and he would've eaten them for breakfast.

  • Like Star Trek Voyager: the MCU is moving past some villains. Hydra was a very silly villain when it was shown that they were controlling SHIELD and were planning some HELICARRIERS to shoot a bunch of targets. That's Bond-villian shtick. And like a Bond villain, they are beaten and (aside from the series), in the movies there are washed up.

  • Bucky reminds me of Seven of Nine: taken at a young age, a cyborg and brainwashed and crazy. Not saying it's a ripoff - far from it. Seven went from Ms. Fanservice to a really compelling character. Of course the movie has to compress things, but wow, they did a very good job with Bucky like the staff at Trek did with Seven of Nine.

  • I'm sick of the whole "we're on the run because we're rebels the man just doesn't like us!" trope that invokes the Eight Deadly Words. Here, there is a reason some of the characters have to run. Like the A Team: accused of a crime they did not commit, but unlike the A Team their movies won't suck.
    • And of course Stark is not suicidal after Civil War, he has things to live for and is getting over his ego.
    • And some of the characters have a valid reason for being on the run other than "I'm special and I fear the MAN!": Scarlet Witch is seen as a Person of Mass Destruction, Clint & Falcon are now criminals, Ant-Man was a criminal and has tech to hide,

  • It's a shame about Pepper, but at least that makes sense. Ask anyone in the military: many mil-spouses just can't take the constant moves, a spouse Married to the Job and the constant stress. That Pepper didn't just up and quit during Ultron means she is a saint.
    • Now if Portman & Paltrow would just fish or cut bait about being in the MCU. Seems they're is on the fence about returning. I get it, each as that "I'm an actress" and the MCU is a "B-movie" to her. Either take the paychecks or just leave.

edited 11th May '16 8:25:34 PM by TairaMai

I tried to walk like an Egyptian and now I need to see a Cairo practor....
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#903: May 11th 2016 at 3:45:43 PM

To my knowledge Portman was never really "on the fence" about leaving. She was already unhappy as far back as Thor: The Dark World. And she's not coming back for the third one.

edited 11th May '16 3:46:01 PM by comicwriter

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#904: May 11th 2016 at 3:54:54 PM

This is just me, but the implication that Gwyneth Paltrow might actually not return caused me to feel more worry about the state of Pepper and Tony's relationship, compared to the Raimi Spider-Man films where it was clear any problems with Peter and Mary-Jane were not permanent and the two were contractually obligated to keep having the "romance plot".

comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#905: May 11th 2016 at 4:48:49 PM

Same. I'd like if she at least had a cameo in Infinity War.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#906: May 11th 2016 at 5:09:41 PM

I'm curious, did anyone else twig that Zemo was listening to a recording the first time he listened to it?

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#907: May 11th 2016 at 5:20:34 PM

[up]It was random to me until the end. That was a last connection to his dead family that the Avengers indirectly killed but prior to this fact I didn't know what to make of it. I thought he actually checked his phone messages and the person on the other end was an accomplice waiting to be revealed. Just more plot added onto him. Well I was wrong. It was motivation... too bad it was only used given importance in the last 2 something minutes of Zemo's heartbreaking moment. I need stronger subtext though so I can really feel his depravity. Like stare with the biggest smile ever at a family playing then the news comes on, talking about the Avenegrs; his smile immediately turns into a scowl, his fist clinch, and he treads off. Or a photo of his family he keeps on looking at the more bad he does. Idk the recording wasn't enough for me

edited 11th May '16 5:39:23 PM by FictionWriterKing

KarkatTheDalek Not as angry as the name would suggest. from Somwhere in Time/Space Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: You're a beautiful woman, probably
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
#908: May 11th 2016 at 5:22:17 PM

I realized that was the case while explaining his motivation. That was pretty clever.

Oh God! Natural light!
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#909: May 11th 2016 at 6:01:36 PM

It made me wonder if the Russos are fans of Gundam Seed Destiny.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#910: May 11th 2016 at 6:07:31 PM

If they are....

They should stop.

One Strip! One Strip!
Punisher286 Since: Jan, 2016
#911: May 11th 2016 at 6:14:43 PM

Honestly I found Zemo to be a rather boring villain with extremely underwhelming motivations and a really predictable plan. I don't get the love for him myself (although he is well-acted, I'll give the film that much). I know that his motives are meant to be sympathetic. But much like the villain in Star Trek 09 (who had similar motivations), the movie doesn't do enough to make me really care. I'd take Stane, Abomination, Loki, Alexander Pierce, and Ultron over him any day, easily.

edited 11th May '16 6:16:49 PM by Punisher286

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#912: May 11th 2016 at 6:20:09 PM

I think it's because he's not a grandiose super villain, or a massive alien threat.

He's (barring his experience in the military) an ordinary dude who succeeded where all these heavy hitters failed:

He completely destroyed the Avengers. And he didn't have to throw a single punch to do it. He just lit the match and let them all set each other ablaze.

That's why people like Zemo.

One Strip! One Strip!
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#913: May 11th 2016 at 6:30:45 PM

Nero in Star Trek also was not very well justified over why he didn't bother to do anything like warn Romulus of their impending doom and loan them his gigantic death ship from the future so they could reverse-engineer it and overpower the Federation.

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#914: May 11th 2016 at 6:33:50 PM

They should've kept in those deleted scenes.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#915: May 11th 2016 at 6:35:04 PM

I'm near positive there was a reason.

I'd assume he was just so completely bat shit insane with grief that logically thoughts like that simply never occurred to him.

I mean, did you see Nero? Logical thinking didn't seem to be a strong point of his. He might have gotten some help from Vulcan on that...but he fucking blew it up!

One Strip! One Strip!
AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#916: May 11th 2016 at 6:36:18 PM

I think the reason was that he was arrested by the Klingons or something? I don't know much about Star Trek.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#917: May 11th 2016 at 6:36:53 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]to be fair, many people are blowing that up of proportion, making look that everything was part of his plan and that nothing the avenger could do mean anything, it something there is some moment where it feel the plot help him more that anything else.

And aside of his rant against the avenger, is a very bland villian

edited 11th May '16 6:37:40 PM by unknowing

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
NapoleonDeCheese Since: Oct, 2010
#918: May 11th 2016 at 6:38:27 PM

To be honest, they should have made him Gyrich (unless he's still tied to the X-rights) or someone like that instead of a Baron Zemo.

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#919: May 11th 2016 at 6:41:36 PM

@Tucker, from about 2 pages ago: I agree with the 'lone gunman' view of Zemo.

I can see how some folks wouldn't like how he was handled, but honestly, I can't think of a better way to tie everything together at the end. For a story that ultimately comes down to the personal, the villain's motivations needed to be personal as well.

edited 11th May '16 6:45:10 PM by edvedd

Visit my Tumblr! I may say things. The Bureau Project
LordVatek Not really a lord of anything Since: Sep, 2014
Not really a lord of anything
#920: May 11th 2016 at 6:55:05 PM

Zemo was done almost perfectly for the kind of story it was. If he had been any stronger, he would have overshadowed the main conflict and if he had been any weaker, he wouldn't need to exist.

This song needs more love.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#921: May 11th 2016 at 6:55:18 PM

The "lone shooter" concept might've been fresh on my mind because a relative of mine tried to sneak a knife in the theater we went to. They said it was in case there was another theater shooting like in Aurora. Because I'm sure a knife in the dark would help us against an armed gunman with tear gas. But it's proof that the fear of it happening anywhere has really pervaded our culture this year. And perhaps then affecting the stories we see.

I think the reason was that he was arrested by the Klingons or something? I don't know much about Star Trek.

He was, but it's still pretty odd that his first thought after busting out of prison was "nab Spock and BLOW UP VULCAN" instead of warning his people.

If you have to nab Spock (how did he even know when Spock would even turn up?), do it quick, then go to Romulus, spend a few years building a super-fleet with them, and then get your revenge. Served very cold.

edited 11th May '16 6:56:21 PM by Tuckerscreator

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#922: May 11th 2016 at 7:09:29 PM

[up][up]For me already overshadow the whole thing, the acords just move into the background as more bad thing happen to stark and the whole "five winter soldiers" thing, in the end Iron man is reduce to "MY PARENT ARE DEAAAAAD"!!!" meme which is quite hilarious

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
drac0blade Since: Jan, 2015
#923: May 11th 2016 at 7:17:32 PM

[up][up] Perhaps Nero was afraid the Romulans would just take his ship and throw him in a brig somewhere — there's no reason for them to help Nero get his revenge, after all.

Or perhaps Nero was afraid of running into his past self. True, nothing happened when the Spocks met, but Nero didn't know that, and didn't want to risk it.

Edit: Or, if he wasn't born yet, running into his future parents.

edited 11th May '16 7:33:24 PM by drac0blade

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#924: May 11th 2016 at 7:30:36 PM

I've heard that the reason was Nero was pissed off at the Romulans for their part in botching the whole supernova thing. So he didn't trust his own people, even in the past.

Forever liveblogging the Avengers
alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#925: May 11th 2016 at 9:01:09 PM

To be honest, they should have made him Gyrich (unless he's still tied to the X-rights) or someone like that instead of a Baron Zemo.
Except 1) Gyrich is with the X-Men rights (he was in the first X-Men movie) and 2) Gyrich was never a straight up villain. He was also the obstructive bureaucrat. He might have stood in fine for General Ross, but not for Zemo.


Total posts: 3,445
Top