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Captain America: Civil War (with SPOILERS!) Discussion and Whatever Thread

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#851: May 10th 2016 at 8:26:20 PM

It was talking about the fight at the airport.

That's about all we heard. It's not clear if the Siberian fight went down yet.

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Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#852: May 10th 2016 at 11:38:17 PM

The Airport fight happens a couple of days after Peggy's funeral....

alliterator Since: Jan, 2001
#853: May 10th 2016 at 11:58:38 PM

To be fair, the newspaper could also be reporting Peggy's death a couple of days after it happened. Or Coulson could be reading an old newspaper.

Also, here is an image of the paper. In contains a lot of stuff revealed in Agent Carter Season 2, but also the fact that Michael was her only brother. Which means for Sharon to be her "niece," Michael would either have to have a child pre-death or not actually be dead and only faked his death. I'm guessing the latter and he would be the plot for Season 3.

edited 11th May '16 12:12:46 AM by alliterator

hollygoolightly Since: Apr, 2012 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#854: May 11th 2016 at 2:50:22 AM

[up]Yeah, that's what a lot of us thought in Agent Carter Season 2, actually. I mean, dude was a spy, and they don't show a body? And then Thompson gets gunned down in the end over a file concerning one "M. Carter"? Sounds like some Deep Cover stuff to me.

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#855: May 11th 2016 at 5:09:07 AM

I am more interested in what the woman on the TV says, because I am not sure if she is actually referring to one of the "public" fights, or if she just says that Cap vanished instead of signing....

edvedd Darling. from At the boutique, dear. Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
Darling.
#856: May 11th 2016 at 6:56:08 AM

More parallels: The woman Tony talks to at MIT basically making Zemo's argument, except Zemo is willing to take that grudge all the way.

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#858: May 11th 2016 at 10:04:43 AM

I hadn't thought of that

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#859: May 11th 2016 at 10:09:43 AM

Yeah, that's pretty cool.

I especially like that reference to Tony's Cut the wire line back in the Avengers. Though i think meant more along the lines of not wanting others to sacrifice themselves. Instead, he wants to be smart enough to find another way.

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Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#860: May 11th 2016 at 10:10:32 AM

"I will prevent more teen prodigies from dying before their time, by recruiting this teen prodigy into my war!"

edited 11th May '16 10:10:42 AM by Tuckerscreator

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#861: May 11th 2016 at 10:12:41 AM

Well, we already went over how Tony is kinda reckless.

Remember what Wanda said: He wants to save the world but doesn't know the difference between saving it and destroying it.

Yes, she was talking about Ultron, but there's a reason Steve pissed his pants when she said that; because he realized her point that it applies to Tony as well.

edited 11th May '16 10:13:16 AM by HandsomeRob

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Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#862: May 11th 2016 at 10:12:44 AM

It was not a great thing to do although ideally it should be safer fighting superheroes than crooks and supervillains.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#863: May 11th 2016 at 10:17:31 AM

As previously noted, it wasn't supposed to be a war. Stark didn't think it was going to get as violent as it did. He and Nat even discuss this halfway through the fight, where Stark mentions that he's been using kid's gloves with Cap.

  • NAT: Time to change the plan?
  • STARK: Well, my plan so far has been going easy on them. Do you have a better idea?

Spidey had orders to keep his distance from the fighting and just shoot some webs here and there. Nobody expected it to turn into the all-out brawl it became. Stark really wasn't expecting the level of violence to kick up to the point that Captain America would drop a shipping container on a teenager.

Ultimately, bringing Spider-Man was a mistake, but you have to account for the fact that Stark brought him to make an arrest, not to be wage war against enemy combatants. He's there to be a cop, not a soldier.

edited 11th May '16 10:21:06 AM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#864: May 11th 2016 at 10:48:05 AM

Things were desperate on both sides.

Tony was trying to bring Steve in before other people more willing to be violent came on the scene.

Steve thought he needed to stop a Five Bad Band of one man armies and didn't have the time to convince Tony of the truth.

Add in people on both sides with their own thoughts and agendas (Wanda and Scott not being big fans of Tony—though Scott may have only come to legitimately hate him after this incident—and T'challa wanting to kill Bucky) and the fact that neither side actually wanted to hurt the other meant they both pulled their punches for too long and things just blew up.

The gas tanker that Scott and Cap threw at them might have also helped.

edited 11th May '16 10:48:59 AM by HandsomeRob

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KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#865: May 11th 2016 at 11:01:08 AM

It's a good point that article makes about how Spidey's addition gives Tony a "safe" way to take down his friends.

When comics Tony wants to end the fight before escalates into something worse, he brings an deadly unstable knock-off Asgardian superweapon. People die.

When film Tony wants to end the fight before it escalates into something worse, he brings someone with no desire to really hurt anyone whose main abilities involves non-lethally incapacitating others. Granted, people still almost die - but that's because he also brought Vision and his mega death laser that clearly has no restraint.

On an unrelated note, anyone else think the airport fight was the most comic book battle we've had in the MCU yet? Lots of people with varied freaky powers, exploding cars chucked at people (a comic book classic, it's even lampshaded), giant lasers, people shouting things... It's about time the Avengers all showed up in a movie that didn't involve them fighting an army of paper mooks with lasers.

edited 11th May '16 11:04:01 AM by KnownUnknown

Bocaj Funny but not helpful from Here or thereabouts (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Funny but not helpful
#866: May 11th 2016 at 11:02:32 AM

I waited a long time for the robot angst.

I'm so happy

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AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#867: May 11th 2016 at 12:26:04 PM

AOU already did the whole "save the civilians, not like Man of Steel" thing, but I liked how Zemo's backstory tied into it. Unjustified in his killing of more innocents to get his way, but he's basically the result of that collateral damage taken to an extreme.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#868: May 11th 2016 at 12:35:52 PM

The article also mentioned that exactly how Spidey's webshooters work isn't made clear. I was thinking that he might be making the webs organically, but shooting them mechanically. That explains the age-old Spidey question from the comics "Why doesn't he sell his web-fluid?" It's even more obvious here, since a rich tech magnate specifically asked him about his webbing.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#869: May 11th 2016 at 12:37:13 PM

To me, Zemo seems more "relatable" (for lack of a better word) as a villain for the modern times. Unlike megalomaniacs like Ultron or Ronan or Malekith, Zemo seems like someone we hear about in America a lot: the lone gunman, driven by intense desire for "righteousness" and revenge. So he seems to me almost chillingly real because people like him are real and cause more deaths than we're willing to admit.

ITNW1989 a from Big Meat, USA Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: GAR for Archer
a
#871: May 11th 2016 at 1:03:18 PM

[up][up][up] The uncertainty in the article you're referring to was talking about Tony's uncertainty as to whether the webbing caught in the footage is part of Spidey's powers or something artificial; it's made pretty clear in the film that Peter designed both the webbing and the shooters himself.

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
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#872: May 11th 2016 at 1:03:59 PM

Ya know, the more I see this discussion, the more I think Zemo is probably one of the best villains in the MCU.

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FictionWriterKing Since: Apr, 2016
#873: May 11th 2016 at 1:08:26 PM

Meh I don't see the big deal with Zemo. He's bland and static. If you take away what he represents I wouldn't care at all. His family, although the only attachment to them comes at the end in a revelation as to why he performed these actions, kinda gives him nuance. I think people like him because he steps away from the harmy, over top villains superhero anything always have. He isn't screaming nonesnse or throwing superpowered fits

Well I would say 96 percent of supervillians are static, meaning they are unhinged from our first introduction of them. Unlike them, Zemo's reasoning comes out for the surprise factor. He's not a generic Hydra goon but just a guy angry at the Avegers. Only if his justification had more emotional content contributing to it aside from the random phone message prior to CW's ending... otherwise he went through the plot's motions like butter.

On the other hand, his lack of narm makes him stand out among a narm crowd. Roussos were smart to end off like this

edited 11th May '16 1:28:26 PM by FictionWriterKing

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#874: May 11th 2016 at 1:17:09 PM

[up][up] I agree wholeheartedly with that. Zemo is one of Marvel's best villains. He felt alive to me, putting him in a category with

  • Loki
  • Obadiah Stane
  • Aldrich Killian
  • Alexander Pearce

edited 11th May '16 1:17:40 PM by TobiasDrake

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#875: May 11th 2016 at 1:19:23 PM

Killian felt alive? I mean, he's kind of a shitty villain.

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