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Captain America: Civil War (with SPOILERS!) Discussion and Whatever Thread

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TompaDompa from Sweden Since: Jan, 2012
#826: May 10th 2016 at 2:57:51 PM

[up] That's rich coming from someone with a handle like that. tongue

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#827: May 10th 2016 at 2:59:02 PM

Admittedly so, but I draw the line at wanting to see someone kill themselves.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#828: May 10th 2016 at 3:00:08 PM

"I was just thinking that. If IM 2 wasn't it, this is the recipe for a proper Demon in a Bottle adaptation, unlikely as it'll probably be."

Well IM 2 did the stupid decision to close Tony arc with his father, to the point the avenger have to retcon that way(which is my point rest some point to this movie but isnt russo fault)

[up]Well I can blame for that thinking, this movie is pretty much "shit happen at tony stark" I mean just look iron man 3 and compare with this, is really harsh to see if you like the chararter

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#829: May 10th 2016 at 3:08:56 PM

The only way Tony's story will end is with a Heroic Sacrifice. Either they keep him going indefinitely or he dies stopping Thanos.

Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#830: May 10th 2016 at 3:11:25 PM

Trying to think how to put this-

So like in some fairly recent comics Tony Stark has been shown driving Kamala Khan to high school and I sort of joked to myself that this would be extremely creepy behavior for some takes on Tony, especially the "Superior" version of him, which among other things played up him being a perv.

But like I also thought that it would be a bit weird for the MCU take on Tony to do so, not in the "perv" sense, but because he tends to play up the more troubled and jerky aspects of Tony's character (the current comic version is on the more well-adjusted end). Like it kind of would come off as "trying to hard" and being a bad influence to hang out with a teenager (granted, a member of the Avengers), including by driving them to school.

And so to get to the point, Tony being teenaged Peter's buddy is already bit weird at the beginning of Civil War, and looks even unhealtheir post-Civil War, which makes me wonder whether his role in Homecoming will be as a straightforward Uncle Pennybags.

edited 10th May '16 3:13:10 PM by Hodor2

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#831: May 10th 2016 at 3:12:52 PM

Maybe that's the best way for him. He makes plans to insure his company can go on and the Arc Reactor Tech won't be mis-used, reconciles with his friends...

And then kills himself in a Heroic Sacrifice before he (in his mind) screws it all up again and goes out on a high note.

Now, whether anyone lets him do that is the question.

One Strip! One Strip!
comicwriter Since: Sep, 2011
#832: May 10th 2016 at 3:18:29 PM

The biggest problem I had with him palling around with Kamala is that it'd be a pretty easy way for someone to track Kamala's identity if they ever got photos or video.

Same thing for this, actually. "Say isn't it odd that Peter Parker, the guy who is constantly disappearing with no alibi for where he goes, is now hanging around with noted superhero Tony Stark?"

[up]Yes. That or a Taking You with Me. Still I figure they'll kill someone since they said Infinity War is gonna close out certain parts of the franchise that have been there from the beginning.

edited 10th May '16 3:19:14 PM by comicwriter

Galadriel Since: Feb, 2015
#833: May 10th 2016 at 3:20:41 PM

Well, Peter's clearly very smart (developing the web-shooters), so they might be able to go with a "got an internship at Stark Industries" cover. But Tony shouldn't have more than a cameo role in the Spider-Man film.

edited 10th May '16 3:21:20 PM by Galadriel

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#834: May 10th 2016 at 3:42:11 PM

I think you guys are blowing things out of proportion. There is no reason to believe Stark is going to become suicidal after the events of Civil War.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#835: May 10th 2016 at 3:49:31 PM

Maybe not, but he's not gonna come out of things better. Not after everything he's been through.

He lost his woman, he lost a lot of friends (including fellow Science Bro Bruce Banner), he's still messed up after nearly dying (not from the terrorist attack set up by a man who came to see as a father, or the time when the thing he made to save his life after the first near death experience nearly killed him) but the incident where he was force to fly a nuke through a worm hole and nearly died in space.

Oh, and lets not forget his involvement in the destruction of an entire country via creating a murder bot.

Maybe you are right, and he's not gonna try and actively kill himself, but you can't tell me that Tony is wondering if maybe he needs to just rest permanently. Or at the least if he gets hurt enough, he makes no attempt to save himself, because he figures maybe it's just his time.

With his guilt complex, I can see Tony getting a bad injury in battle and just continuing to fight with out worrying about it, because he figures others are more important then he is.

edited 10th May '16 3:50:19 PM by HandsomeRob

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unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#836: May 10th 2016 at 3:57:32 PM

Yeah, I saw the first movie and is clear Tony devolpt that tendecy of do thing alone after what happen which is made worst.

Is really hard to see another path for Tony right now

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#837: May 10th 2016 at 4:15:47 PM

Suicide? I can't agree with that being plausible.

TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
(•̀⤙•́)
#838: May 10th 2016 at 4:19:20 PM

[up][up][up] Sure, I can. I am telling you exactly that. Tony's not planning to take a permanent rest or kill himself. He wouldn't have gone back to the compound if he was despair spiraling. He pulled himself back together, got home from Siberia, went right back to work, and ended the movie on a funny note by making an active power-play against Ross.

edited 10th May '16 4:19:58 PM by TobiasDrake

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#839: May 10th 2016 at 4:43:42 PM

[up]

Fair enough. I suppose he'd never try and kill himself. I mean, I even said that it's a difference between him and Zemo. Tony prefers to live with his mistakes and try to fix them.

Still though, I can't help but worry about the guy. He's got way too much piled up on his head.

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MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#840: May 10th 2016 at 4:44:36 PM

You know, I never thought I would come out the other side of a Captain America movie feeling like he was the well meaning villain of his own movie.

Just finished the movie, and it's great, I couldn't see the second stinger because reasons. Fantastic movie, not Winter Soldier great but it's up there. So pretty much all Captain America movies are the best.

Anyeay, I always believed he was wrong about the accords but I didn't think I'd come out the other side of the movie feeling like that out of all the dick moves made in the movie his were the biggest.

I get he was emotionally compromised because of Bucky and some of Stark's actions are still kinda shady, and while on the Accords front both sides raissed excellent points, in the end its better to have them than not.

The only reason why this is a war is because of Bucky, mostly, and that's because of Steve's bullheadedness and Zemo's machinations.

I'm not a Stark fanboy by any means, I've never been a Stark apologist, I just genuinely feel like that in some ways he almost comes out looking a little better than Steve does after all this.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#841: May 10th 2016 at 4:49:02 PM

I think Steve might as well.

He did send that letter after all, so I like to think he's aware that a lot of his choices are as responsible as Tony's.

I suppose it helps that Tony lacks some of his comic counterpart's mistakes (like being the cause of the Original Civil War and some other shit as well).

The thing is though, as of the end of the conflict, a lot of the people involved like Cap a lot more (the members of Cap's team and Black Widow probably). Tony still has his supporters, but he brings so many issues and mistakes to the table that I imagine there are a lot of guys who'd prefer to follow Cap no matter how many people his best friend has killed.

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TobiasDrake (•̀⤙•́) (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Arm chopping is not a love language!
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#842: May 10th 2016 at 4:53:30 PM

Stark didn't cause the original Civil War in the comics. He actively campaigned against the Registration Act in Washington. It was only after the Stamford Incident that he saw the way the wind was blowing, immediately flipped sides, and started telling people, "This is GOING to happen whether we like it or not so we need to get onboard with it, get behind it, take control of it, and mold it in the direction we want it to go instead of the direction that some politician thinks is good."

There are many valid points to be made about Stark's puppy-kicking due to Millar's poor judgment in the comic, but saying that he caused the Civil War is flat-out wrong.

In any case, the film did a much better job of upholding the intention of the comic while removing the countless mistakes that ruined it. It did a far better job of doing what the comic tried to do.

edited 10th May '16 4:55:29 PM by TobiasDrake

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AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#843: May 10th 2016 at 4:55:30 PM

It's still amusing how the Civil War in the comics had Speedball turn into such a fucking emo. The writers of this Squirrel Girl special comic had her calling him out on this and he just whined "But I'm deep now!". He even had his dog in a Penance costume!

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
MousaThe14 Writer, Artist, Ignored from Northern Virginia Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Writer, Artist, Ignored
#844: May 10th 2016 at 4:58:15 PM

Yeah, but even though more people like Rogers, that means he dragged out more decent people that had no right being involved.

He's too righteous and inspirational, of course that means some guy with a wife and kids comes put of retirement, of course some nerd with a daughter wants to fight by his side. They dont know the full situation, they have other things, he shouldn't have asked in the first place.

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HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#845: May 10th 2016 at 5:26:18 PM

That's true.

You know, when they all get back together to get massacred by DEFEAT THANOS I hope Steve defends Tony's decision, and admits he made some poor choices that helped escalate the situation.

Hell, at the very end, when Tony found out that Steve was telling (what he thought was) the truth, Tony dropped everything to go and help him.

It's really hard to see him as the bad guy in this. The Accords have flaws, but it might be how things are going.

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ExplosiveLion Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
#846: May 10th 2016 at 5:28:11 PM

I'd like it even more if Tony pulls of a Dark Knight Returns inspired finale to his story.

He doesn't die fighting Thanos. 10 years pass, he's been in retirement, then something forces him to get back in the suit. He's a battered old man, has lost everything that mattered, his friends are either gone or dead, and he's heavily using alcohol. Then it turns out that a new menace is in town, and the Avengers need as many hands as they can get. He's doubting to get involved, then the new bad guy (or a lackey) kills someone who he loves (Pepper most probably, but I wouldn't rule out Happy or maybe Rhodey) and then he gets in the suit one more time.

He finds hard to play with the new Avengers, and his bitterness alienates him from the team. Most of them look up to him, vut know that he's a very volatile man, and don't trust him after everything that has happened. But he wants to prove himself that for once he won't screw things up, and make his best to guide this new team.

Long story short, he pulls of an heroic sacrifice, and the last shot of him emulates the shot when he's resting on the ground after falling from the wormhole and Thor, Cap and Hulk are besides him, yet instead of them it's his new teammates and he's not unconscious but he is fatally injured. He looks up at them, has a vision of his pasts, and he allucinates everyone he lost either to death or because he drove them away, all standing near him, smiling. He shed's a final tear, smiles and, while he closes his eyes, he thinks:

"I'll always be Iron Man."

Boom, he is dead.

At the end of the movie we see a statue of him, not Iron Man, holding the old arc reactor that Pepper gave him as a gift, but now with the words: "Proof that the Avengers had a heart".

It'd serve to make a proper Demon in a Bottle storyline, while also (lol) ironically making a better DKR storyline than Bv S did.

edited 10th May '16 6:26:05 PM by ExplosiveLion

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#847: May 10th 2016 at 7:37:39 PM

You all do realize that Civil War is technically still going on?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#848: May 10th 2016 at 7:47:03 PM

The accords created a new status quo, if what the newest episode of Agents has told us has shown.

edited 10th May '16 7:47:19 PM by VeryMelon

Cross (Don’t ask)
#849: May 10th 2016 at 7:51:06 PM

All Agents of SHIELD has shown us it apparently it act as a MRA/SHRA.

Nothing much has changed otherwise.

edited 10th May '16 7:51:49 PM by Cross

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#850: May 10th 2016 at 8:16:32 PM

If the episode is set the day the newspapers reported Peggy's death, the big fight hasn't gone down yet.


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