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Which could equally suggest a different tone problem entirely. Possibly that the tone is simply inconsistent and poorly paced. But I don't remember many scenes from BL 2 being this serious or exposition heavy.
A thought, but maybe you should actually play the game for real before majorly criticizing it.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 17th 2019 at 12:27:49 PM
I would say that BL 3 is a little more tonally consistent than BL 2, if only because it doesn't keep veering into actual horror. It keeps the violence light-hearted, for better or worse. I replayed BL semi-recently and was kind of shocked by how horrific a lot of it was.
However BL 3 does tend to have really long, unskippable cutscenes so perhaps it could've used some trimming.
Edited by Clarste on Sep 17th 2019 at 12:46:13 PM
I enjoy making enemy bestiaries for games, and made one for BL2 and almost have one prepared for BL 1, but i feel like i should move the whole concept to the Weapon Brands page, ex. move the entires about the Hyperion military to the Hyperion folder below the tropes for the faction as a whole.
Yay, or nay?
Edited by Stolen_Moment on Sep 17th 2019 at 5:01:46 AM
There's also another thing about the Borderlands 2 characters that I've asked in the page's discussion... It's getting the Too Long Page Warning and must be split sooner or later.
Iíve just moved enough entries to lower the size of the page, past the 'Too Long' mark, though maybe a separate page for Handsome Jack and Angel may be in order if worse comes to worse. Though at this point I think almost everything that needs to be said has been cleared
Also I may need some help writing entries and tropes for Maliwan's Army and the Cultists in the Weapons Brands page, I donít have the means to play the third game just yet and thus donít have any knowledge on how they fight or any of their more intricate details
Maybe move most of the bandits to a separate page, or possibly merge it with the Children of the Vault? Certainly do so with the various enemy types and only keep specific bosses to their respective games.
Got given a copy of the game on PS 4 and played it. Story wise I don't think there's much of a tone problem, compared to BL 2 or BL:TPS. I do think the game's main issue is that its antagonists have trouble leveraging the level of menace the game wants them to have. Partially because they have an army of bandits and when bandits have been cannon fodder and a non-threat for 3 games, telling me "But now it's really a galactic threat!" is never gonna sell. Second... because they are boring. It's unfair to compare them to handsome jack, but Handsome Jack they are not. Jack was constantly menacing and rolling out new menaces against you, and a literal space station hovering over your head constantly showing his influence. They are evil streamers sending bandits against you and acting smug, but without the punch Jack had. And it's made even worse by the fact that they try to hit the same notes as Jack rather than be their own thing (Faux Affably Evil Smugness, only they twins are pretty open about being evil assholes unlike Jack's delusions of herodom). They are further not helped by taking a back seat to other villains for each story arcs so it's like "Oh yeah, those two pinheads exists" when the game finally remembers them.
The intro is the worst! You have to endure Marcus' thing, then opening cutscene, then Claptrap's schtick. 4 Times. And none of it is skippable.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 18th 2019 at 7:07:49 AM
Oh now that's a problem.
What really helped Jack was that he was Omnipresent throughout the entirety of the game. From the very start, he was always there constantly plaguing you & growing alongside you as the game progressed so you really got to know the bastard.
But if the Twins take a backseat to every planets Arc Villain then that takes a lot out of getting to know them.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 18th 2019 at 4:11:45 AM
To be fair I don't know if it's true for every planet, but on Promethea they take a back seat to The heir of Maliwan and in Athenas To the local Maliwan commander.
Also dear Gearbox. Why do you make one of your main character and a planet share name (with an added S)?
That's honestly, IMHO, not their biggest weakness compared to Jack. I think there's 2
A) The Twins are pretty open about the fact they are asshole and just using people. So this makes their Faux Affably Evil bit fall even further flat, and makes them less interesting than Jack, who genuinely deluded himself in thinking he's the good guy, and that gave him layers.
B) They never get annoyed at you. They are smug, and remain smug even as you succeed. Jack would get aggravated. Even when he had plans for you in the long term, he'd at least put a show of being annoyed that you're mowing your way out of every attempt from him to kill you. The twins don't. They remain smug, because they know that when the cutscenes come the plot will go their way. It makes them rather grating. And not in a fun way.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 18th 2019 at 7:15:25 AM
Huh alright I get ya, I get ya. Makes sense.
Edited by slimcoder on Sep 18th 2019 at 4:56:20 AM
Bear in mind that bandits get off on violence and cheap hedonism. The Calypsos aren't trying to impress shareholders, they're trying to impress a bunch of traumatised, insane cannibalistic misfits. Their whole thing is telling bandits for the very first time that the bizarre, disgusting, and ludicrously brutal lifestyle that's made them the punchline of the galaxy is OK and should be celebrated, and by doing so, they're turning the detritus of the hypercapitalist hellscape that is the six galaxies from byproducts into products. It's like they've invented renewable energy in a universe that's been burning carbon for centuries. That Card-Carrying Villain schtick is like Handsome Jack's hero schtick - part of it's real, but much of it is an incredibly lucrative public persona. It's actually pretty cool how they turned their bottomless hedonistic appetite from a demerit into an asset - it's like Tyler Durden in Fight Club, who built a cult of people cut adrift by capitalism's sanitised, euphemised cruelty by removing the euphemisms and openly celebrating the cruelty.
Edited by Iaculus on Sep 18th 2019 at 12:59:19 PM
None of that makes them any less boring though.
Admitably this is without any extended interactions with her yet but I can't help but feel a bit tingly hearing Tyreen's voice.
Like, one can wax poetic about the Watsonian design of the personality.
None of that changes that you're listening to two characters who are designed as "Youtubers/Streamers through the lense of someone who really hates youtubers/streamers" being smug at you for several hours. And it's not the fun stuff where it's like "Oh, I wonder what insane stuff Jack will say next", it's "Oh, cool, more of them talking about how they are ahead of us. Cool, I'mma gonna go make coffee why the cutscene plays. Also why does everyone on the ship listen to these two jackass call? You can just turn the radio off".
The smugness isn't helped by the fact that you don't really see the Callipsos being intelligent, so much as the game contrives to have them succeed by making the Vault hunters dumb(er). It makes their smugness more annoying, coz it's not really earned.
Compared with Jack, and the Wilhelm Trojan thing, which, ya know, at least shows that Jack's actually capable of plotting and scheming.
Is Athena even IN this game? At all? There are so many missing characters after a 'We need everyone we can get' ending. Including the one who says that. Or as far as I can find right now.
As to the comment of 'Maybe you should play it before you criticize it', one, that's not how fair criticism works in a world where we'd then have to pay $60+ just to have the pleasure of saying 'Wow, this game sucks!' and mourn the loss of $60+. Congrats, we can criticize it but the company got our money anyway. Never ready 50 Shades of Gray either but I know what shit is it anyway.
And, well, I would if I could, but I can't, so I won't. I can't play it on PC until 2020.
Damn if you do, damn if you don't as they say.
Only option left is to try & see if you can get Gamefly.
I don't believe Gamefly does PC games, and even then, it wouldn't correct my problem anyway. It's still not out until 2020.
Anyway, on the positive, I really like the skill tree design, and the re-worked manufacturers. The guns feel more fun. That said there's still the issue that in a game with "A bajillionest guns", 90% of them aren't even worth considering. Like, I'm in play-through one still, and I won't look at anything not at least blue. Heck, with how expensive SDU are in this game, I don't even pick up whites most of the time.
But yeah, the vault hunter. Love that you get your action skill at level 2, that they got rid of the dead levels. Love having multiple action skills. Looking forward to being high level where switching skill loadouts is worthwhile.
There's also an impressive enemy variety in game. BL 2 was no slouch between the various bandits, Loaders and Hyperion Soldiers, Skaggs, Rakks, Varkid, Spiderants, Stalkers, but this game gives it a run for its money.
Not AFAIK. Which makes the ending of the Pre-sequel a big empty nothing.
Edited by Ghilz on Sep 18th 2019 at 10:51:06 AM
On a general note, I tend to go by the philosophy that everyone changes over the years. Nobody's going to ever be the same as they used to be. BL3 runs on a seven year gap. So I don't really concern myself too much with character personality changes.
The game came out on PC the same time as every other platform.
They are referring to the PC version being stuck on the Epic Games storefront for a half a year.
And some people don't wanna buy from Epic.
Ah. Okay then.
I didn't mind Tyreen and Troy. Although I'd say the most interesting thing is how they interact with each other, rather than how they interact with the protagonists. They've got... issues, and for a game whose theme is extremely blatantly "family" I think it works out well enough.
Also I feel they've earned their smugness because it's not just the plot letting everything go right for them, it's also all the protagonists being incredibly stupid (which is a plot point, Lilith is explicitly a bad leader). They taunt you at the beginning that you're the ones who will give them everything they want on a platter, and they're exactly right. Their plan would have been impossible if you hadn't went around opening the vaults for them.
So basically they are taunting you for being very very dumb, and they are right.
Edit: That said, it's difficult to make "I have a very large army" seem like a threat in a game where killing very large armies is the bread and butter of gameplay. Jack never felt like a threat to me either, for the exact same reasons. I kill loaderbots by the bucketload and that's actually the funnest part of the game?
Edited by Clarste on Sep 19th 2019 at 12:13:41 PM
That kind of seems shitty in it's own right. The Vault Hunters are such ciphers that "Ah ha, the point is that you're supposed to be a drooling idiot!" feels more insulting than everything else. Hey maybe I don't want to be put in the shoes of a drooling idiot who lets the bad guys constantly win and mock me.
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