Anime:My Hero Academia

Yeah, if you have to resort to 'AFO is basically omnipotent' to make your theory fit, then clues don't matter anymore and the traitor's identity becomes so totally unguessable that speculation is pointless. Like at that point Deku or All Might might as well be the traitor.

Well, we were just recently talking about how a lot of people don't bother to try and justify their highly improbably theories with anything more than "AFO has a bunch of Quirks."

But, seriously, I do think who the spy is in a way unguessable, and that's part of why I'm not super invested in trying to figure it out.

Because if your rationale has to involve things like "Well, there are things that very much imply Aoyama's innocent but you can reinterpret them so he's not if you try hard enough" or "Hagakure suggested they go to the mall, and Shigaraki went to the same mall so it incriminates her, even though that was very clearly framed as a total coincidence" or "Ashido meet Gigantomachia so that could have been an elaborate way to give him information" or "Kaminari said Stain looked kind of cool that one time...", like, even if any of those characters do turn out to be the spy, I do not consider any of those actually reasonable lines of thoughts that a reader could be expected to take.

Basically, it would be getting it right by look, not because Horikoshi actually did a good job writing subtle but useful hints to the answer.

I've had someone use "Hagakure suggested they go to the mall, and Shigaraki went to the same mall so it incriminates her, even though that was very clearly framed as a total coincidence", assuming that's not precisely why you're using it as an example.

For myself, my money has generally been on one of the faculty more than the students. Removing the possibility of unwitting dupe, which as mentioned with All For One omnipotence makes the true answer unguessable, it seems to be the best way to explain certain gaps in knowledge.

USJ: Had to be able to provide access / awareness there would be a class there but also had to be ignorant of Class A's quirks. A Faculty member not directly linked to class A would probably suit this.

Training Camp: Someone who knew where the training camp would be and when it would be held, which the students didn't fully have until they got there.

My personal bet, outside a new character introduced to be the traitor, is Vlad King.

Right- using that as evidence against her makes no sense, and if by some chance she's revealed to be the spy and we were supposed to take it that way that doesn't mean it was actually a good hint; it means it was a shitty hint that certain people happened to take the way it was supposed to be, instead of how something like that would logically be taken.

Edited by LSBK on Feb 8th 2020 at 4:47:47 AM

Alright next week we begin the Festival Arc in full.

Can't wait for the arrival of 2 of the series best villains.

The thing about the mall is, it's nowhere near Kamino. Shigaraki didn't just walk around the block and ran into Deku. He would've had to take a train to get there, at minimum.

Now, this doesn't automatically mean that Hagakure is the traitor (after all, anyone could've informed the League where they were going), but it does imply the traitor is among the students.

Secondly, the only two scenarios that matter for the Traitor are the USJ and Kamino. During the break-in, Hagakure is unaccounted for. As in, when Shigaraki decays the front door and the reporters get in, during the class president picking there are only 19 votes, and the missing vote is Hagakure. Her costume is also not in any shot.

In addition, her alibi during USJ is sketchy, since she says she's with Shoto yet shoto instantly froze everyone and she is unharmed, she's nowhere near shoto pre-warp when everyone else is near the people they end up with, and she made no effort to let Shoto know she was there in the first place.

During Kamino, the only 2 students who did not know about the Hero's counterattack were Jiro and Hagakure, both were the group behind the target during the Test of Courage, and they were knocked unconscious by the gas. This meant the villains had no knowledge of the incoming attack, and we already have the suggestion the traitor is among the students (and virtually all pro-hero traitor candidates did know about the attack, ruling them out)

So all of this adds up, and it seems likely that she's the traitor.

Edited by devak on Feb 8th 2020 at 11:38:27 AM

It doesn't imply anything because Shigaraki didn't go there specifically looking for them; he had no idea Izuku or anyone from U.A. was there. This is made clear.

Remember the Tao of Occam, the simplest solution that requires the fewest extra assumptions is the most likely one.

What is more likely? That Shigaraki ran off in a huff and happened upon Deku at a random location, or that he ran off in a huff, somehow got contacted by their mole and informed that the class he attacked would be at a specific place at a specific time, something that there is zero indication of occurring in the series itself?

I've never been good at headcanons or theories, but the big brain that comes whenever traitor is mentioned in this fandom is outstanding in a way

I wouldn't say the traitor's identity is unguessable. Impossible to 100% determine, sure, but that's not the same thing. Any of us can make a guess, and give our own rationale, as long as it's within reason. Like the Vlad King guess, it's a reasonable conclusion (albeit one I personally disagree with, due to other factors).

I also don't think we were ever supposed to determine the traitor's identity easily, and definitely not with 100% certainty. The point of a mystery plot is that the clues are there, but so are a bunch of red herrings. It's up to the reader to determine what is possible or not, what is likely or not, what is relevant or not, but the author is never going to tell us what's what until the reveal.

But that's just the usual fun of a mystery plot. The incomplete puzzle, the uncertainty of it all, but that we have just enough that we can take good stabs at the truth, regardless.

Yeah, I once saw a theory video talking about this, using manga panels as proof ^note (since her clothes were there in the Anime, possibly an error). The fact that she wasn't in class that day is weird, and I can see how one jumps to the conclusion that it's suspicious. But the funny thing is... to me, her absence during that day is potentially what clears her from all suspicion.

I should explain my reasoning: the break-in itself was committed by Shigaraki, we can all agree, right? The question is "why". What did he have to gain by destroying a gate and activating an alarm? Considering the USJ attack a few days later, a second question arises: how did he know All Might was supposed to be there that day? I believe the two events are linked. Shigaraki destroyed the gate and activated the alarm, so that the mole could take advantage of the resulting chaos to sneak into the teacher's room and find out All Might's schedule for that week.

I understand that it's a tad farfetched to assume all of that, which is why I don't put too much weight into the event until we're certain that's what happened... but if this is true, then Hagakure has to be innocent, as she wasn't in school that day (So's Kaminari, since he was with Kirishima and Iida the entire time).

As for the mall thing, I don't think it's relevant for the traitor's identity. Shigaraki himself was surprised to see Midoriya there.

I think the traitor is more likely to be a staff member, an student never made sense to me as I doubt a young teenager could work as spy like that without getting attached to their Class.

See Attack On Titan for why using young pre-teens/teenagers as spies can easily backfire.

I say this:

"The Best Infiltrator, is the one remaining hidden all the way to and through the end"

In short, we most likely are not going to see any suspicious behavior coming from the Traitor at UA and they most likely won't get exposed as long as their boss doesn't throw them under the bus, since their job, is only to provide information, not take direct action, against All Might and OFA. In short, they are most likely not going to try and kill anyone, but provide information to the very end until either AFO vanish (setting them free of their contract) or AFO wins (leaving them as a "survivor" of the class they were assigned to spy on in the first place and free to go until the next job comes around.)

The best spies and undercover agents, are the ones that nobody knows even exists after all.

x5 "What is more likely? That Shigaraki ran off in a huff and happened upon Deku at a random location, or that he ran off in a huff, somehow got contacted by their mole and informed that the class he attacked would be at a specific place at a specific time, something that there is zero indication of occurring in the series itself?"

What's more likely? That Shigaraki ran off into a random direction, took a train and went to a specific mall in another city where he ran into the one guy he needed to talk to? Again, Kamino and the mall are nowhere near each other. He didn't just walk around the block. Unless he has some never-before-seen special attachment to that mall, there's zero reason to believe this was dumb luck.

Or that he got info that something interesting might happen at the mall and he went to check it out as part of his rageboner? The whole scene where he leaves suggests to me that he was specifically out to hurt someone, the whole "he knows what he needs to do".

We don't know how specific the traitor can be in his/her messages. For the USJ attack all that was needed was a form with the teacher's shedule. Something that's easily dropped off with no human interaction. All that's needed for the mall is a location, all that's needed for the camp attack is a location.

Edited by devak on Feb 9th 2020 at 9:19:50 PM

Shigaraki was very clearly just wandering around mopping to himself, until he saw Izuku and was like "this must be fate". Also he says he wasn't aware he had friends around when Ochaco shows up.

During the Kamino escape, his reaction to seeing Izuku is "why are you everywhere!?" like he can't escape him.

Yes, you may call it contrived, but I really can't understand how whether that meeting was an accident or not is being discussed with all the framing from Shigaraki's perspective we get it.

What would even be the point of telling Shigaraki the U.A. kids were in a mall to begin with? What tactical or logical purpose would that serve? There was no coordinated attack or any hint anyone else knew about it. What is the reasoning here?

Edited by LSBK on Feb 9th 2020 at 3:44:37 PM

x3 and x4 — those deductions would make sense in real life, but in a story, not so much. It's unlikely to be a teacher because they're all secondary or background characters, except for All Might, who we can obviously rule out. Being betrayed by one of their own, i.e. someone in 1-A, would be more interesting for character development, making it more probable. They also aren't likely to be a perfect spy who gives no clues whatsoever to their identity, because then the reveal would seem like an Ass Pull.

I feel like Aoyama's weirdness this episode could be a double-bluff, playing off the possibility of him being the mole as a joke, only for us to eventually learn it really was him all along. As it stands, though, there clearly isn't enough data to narrow it down, or the many more dedicated fans than me would have done so already.

Shigaraki said it was random chance.

Edited by Envyus on Feb 9th 2020 at 9:17:54 AM

And there's nothing saying it wasn't. So simplest option with the fewest additional assumptions is "blind, dumb, luck".

man this episode took out one of my favorite gags when bakugo smirks because deku gets the math problem wrong. that was just so funny to me.

We did get Bakugou imitating Shoujo!Todoroki though, so equivalent exchange and all that.

whoops wrong thread. sorry

Edited by heejung on Feb 10th 2020 at 3:53:03 AM

Does Kurogiri have an actual face? He's not made of shadows/smoke stuff, right? That's what Bakugo proved with his seeing Kurogiri's neck armor. He's a flesh and blood dude but hides it.

So if his Quirk was shut down or he was killed he'd look just like a normal guy? Wait, did Aizawa never use his Quirk on him....?

He does, but to go into further detail would be a spoiler

He has an actual face, but it would take more than just Aizawa looking at him to get rid of the mist in front of it; that seems to be one of those physiological manifestations of a quirk that Aizawa can't erase. Although Aizawa probably could stop him form teleporting.

Those who want more MHA, tweet #We Support You Horikoshi so that haters don't win.

Something going on?