A Single Unified LGBT Character Thread

No need for biological tells on wolfs.

The reason I brought up "third identity = Animal" is because, out of every single living species on the earth, only the one known as "Homo Sapiens"/ "Humans" are the one that "Gender Identity" applies to. And the only one worrying about it too much to warrant.

A werewolf is not a human being, this is basic common sense.

Ergo, a werewolf would give as much as zero thought if it was "male" or "female" in its transformation.

A werewolf (or any other non-human race) would only have this one thought running through its mind in terms of identity.

"I am ME and it feels RIGHT!"

So once transformed, you can describe the character feeling as if a massive weight has heaved off the shoulders as, for the first time in their life, they are in a body that feels one hundred percent "RIGHT!" to them.

That sensation of confidence and security is alone enough to know, that right now, the wolf-shape matches their "Gender identity" to 100%

If it didn't, they would feel that gnawing in their mind right away.

An animal is an animal.

And animals gives zero cents about genders as they are themselves and that is all they need to be.

Nothing else.

Er, lycanthropy works in various ways in various settings. There is no one single manner in which it works. In some settings, a werewolf is just an animal. In some settings that's fair from true.

More to the point, the original poster indicated that the character does largely retain their human mind, and thus, presumably, their human gender identity.

"Would her "more ideal self" being in another body lessen or intensify her dysphoria? "

Hmm, how do you write other werewolves in terms of body image? Do they identify equally well with both human and wolf bodies? That would set a pattern from which her specific case could be extrapolated.

For example. If for them both bodies are equal, then for her that would mean now having two "ideal self" bodies - a feminine human one she would still need to work and hand-craft, and a wolf one that she gets as kinda freebie. It could be a nice relaxing time, but not completely do away with dysphoria.

If one or the other is more ideal, then that compounds and complicates her existing personal issues. Wolf is not good enough and she needs to work on both to get herself feeling right? Or wolf is just even more tempting to be?

"By having this character more or less conform to the binary am I minimizing the existence of non-binaries?"

No, it is perfectly fine for a given character to subscribe to a binary based identity. Given the question's precence, I am sure you aren't in danger of accidentally having narrator try to dictate things over the head of NB people.

"How would I convey her finding out her wolf form is female without having to reference things like genitalia (and would such a thing be appropriate)?"

Yeah, that is tricky. Scents and other wolves perhaps? Like, she wouldn't immediately curl over herself to check between her hind legs (hell in some circumstances she wouldn't even want to in order to avoid risking a dysphoria trigger on top of a weird situation already), but you could have her run into other wolves and have her instincts identify m/f by smell (no, it doesn't even need to be a closeup sniff), then notice her own smell is closer to one group. Or other werewolves whom she knows as cis female in both identities?

Her own human-self smell could maybe register to wolf-self as a "kid" without a gender identifier due to puberty blockers?

It really doesn't need to be that complicated.

Just let all the discomfort that the character feel as a human just pour off when altered into a wolf, indicating that the character is completely comfortable in their new body and just not going to bother with checking anything while transformed.

I mean seriously, all werewolves looks the same...

And I've not found a single example of one confirming its gender identity the moment they are transformed.

(Also, not one where the human mind is in control either, but reduced to a backseat-passenger while the beast is in charge and at most, can only watch and faintly influence the beast through memorial remnants of its human identity in order to keep the beast from attacking a loved one for, at most, five seconds or so...)

Are you seriously saying that all werewolves in all fiction operate entirely on animal instincts while transformed?

That's just an incredibly limited perspective you have there.

I really doubt that they all look—or smell—the same to each other.

I don't recall any werewolf stories that had a trans werewolf, so it may simply have not come up in the stories that either of us has seen.

I've seen plenty, I do believe.

See for example Discworld, in which Angua von Uberwald has enough self-control and awareness to follow and observe a suspect while transformed, as I recall.

Or, for a more wolf-man style, there's Teen Wolf.

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 3rd 2021 at 3:56:14 PM

Never seen those examples.

...

And that said, if there is really a need for distinctions between the werewolves that is wholesome, here you go.

Female werewolf = Shorter, thinner and smaller

Male Werewolf = Bigger, fluffier and heavy set.

There you have it.

The most basic differences between the two of the same kin.

I think that it's quite likely that females smell different, too.

A thought occurred to me: if one wanted to identify the werewolf body as female, one could—setting-specific animal intelligence and communication allowing—have any other wolves/werewolves make mention of it on meeting the character. That might circumvent the question of just how it's known.

That's fair. I'm pretty confident that I've seen examples that run pretty much the gamut of "basically the same person, but in a different shape" to "more or less an actual wolf".

Yeah, werewolves might be the only demi-sentient species that can call one another of its kin a "bitch" without it intended as being an insult...

"What's up, bitch?"

Edited by TitanJump on May 3rd 2021 at 5:46:46 PM

I love how the writer came in with concerns about overgeneralizing the trans experience, and after giving them advice, the thread is now more concerned about overgeneralizing the werewolf experience.

WEREWOLVES *CLAP* ARE *CLAP* VALID *CLAP* WHATEVER *CLAP* FORM *CLAP* THEY *CLAP* ARE

Love the talk, thanks y'all. Writing what I had, I didn't put that much thought into the character's internal thoughts on her dysphoria. I'll keep that in mind going forward.

I feel like at this point it's more or less relevant—especially as werewolves in the setting are considered to be "honorary undead"—to bring up the slogan of the Discworld character Reg Shoe:

"UNDEAD YES—UNPERSON NO!" ;P

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on May 3rd 2021 at 11:09:45 AM

x4 78% of my friend group call one another bitch without any offence involved.

I've been giving my writing a full Continuity Reboot starting from a clean slate (previous efforts at writing my stories did not work out at all, like my previous idea - the setting was abandoned as I hadn't fully figured out the plotline, so the idea was Cut Short) and I have included a couple, Jennie and Aleksandra ("Allie" for short), who are in their 30s (or would be in their 20s in the mid-2000s setting; 2008 was a possible setting).

I've avoided making them a Masculine–Feminine Gay Couple, with them both being very feminine, but them having no obvious gay mannerisms.

The setting is being decided - either the 2010s or the mid-2000s, or both, if you include flashbacks. COVID-19 did not affect 2020 in this setting.

In general, I'm trying to avoid having them there for the sake of including LGBTQ characters (they were originally written as friends, but then decided to change that) and they're Rounded Character types.

The characters aren't there for fanservice reasons as some usage of Lipstick Lesbian is, but various reasons; as a couple is one of them.

They're there as actual characters, not plot devices.

They are an affluent couple, and have been together for 15 years in canon (In-Universe year for Webcomic Time = 2019 - at least the start).

My question is what would be a good Story Arc to give them without it being too focused on LGBT issues or their sexuality? It would be easy to write that way, but I figured it'd be worth trying.

As it is, there's five main characters in my story.

The setting does have a conflict, but No Antagonist causing it. Sure, there is some homophobia, but they're One-Shot Character who are jerkasses rather than a full-on villain. In short, no actual villain in the setting.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on May 5th 2021 at 10:50:28 AM

Then just don't.

If you don't want to bring up their "orientation" then simply just don't do it.

It's not harder than that.

Any story-arc that might be given to a non-LGBT couple, I would think.

If you do want some degree of focus on their being LGBT, then perhaps consider that the fact that they're LGBT seems likely to become apparent simply due to the fact that they're a couple.

I typed the wrong thing.

I meant not making LGBTQ the entire reason for their character arc, but to allow some LGBT storylines.

There's some arcs you can give a couple that relate to relationships in general, but carry extra weight for LGBT couples, even if the subtext isn't explicitly spelled out.

For example, gay couples than want kids often have more obstacles to deal with due to the various stigmas surrounding gay people as predatory or unfit to have children. The "meeting the parents" plot may also have higher stakes. Issues related to marriage may be even more tense. Even simple matters like keeping a home or job can have subtleties related to the Double Standard of being openly gay.

That may not be accurate for every story, but in my opinion, if homophobia exists in the world, it's likely to color the way gay characters interact with it. There's more at risk, even if you don't spell it out.

This would probably be easier if I knew more about these characters though. What's their dynamic? What do they like about each other?

Edited by mightymewtron on May 7th 2021 at 4:38:37 AM

Worth noting that LGBT characters are going to face some issues even in a world w/o homophobia:

• Most people are straight and while some of them may enter into a relationship or sexual encounter out of courtesy or curiosity, LGBT characters will find it much more difficult to find partners. Yes, dedicated dating websites and the like mitigate this problem in Real Life but they don't solve it - plus, they tend to be geared towards adults [which is important if your LGBT characters are teens]
• Except for bisexual or genderfluid characters and the like, you can only reproduce through sperm-and-ova-in-uterus intercourse [as well as assisted and surrogate pregnancy and similar]
• Non-vanilla sexual practices often involve different risks than regular vanilla intercourse. Anal intercourse for example leads much more commonly to injuries and STDs.
• Some issues that straight people face carry over to LGBT people. The character you have a crush on may not be interested. Your family may consider your prospective partner too old/young/unsavoury etc.

To answer your questions:

• Names not decided fully, Carla and Jenny possibly.
• They're in their 30s (age not decided) in 2019, already an established couple who've dated since 2004.
• No significant age gap: they're the same age roughly.
• Their dynamic is a loyal couple, the equivalent of Seduction-Proof Marriage (although not married).
• What they like about each other: Not in this order but: physical attractiveness, both have a kind, gentle personality, similar food and drink tastes, they can discuss things with each other openly, both are helpful and kind to others and have gone the extra mile, both passionate about film/movies/TV.
• Their interests are travel, fashion (The Fashionista trope in this case, but not Impossibly Tacky Clothes), cars (may sound tomboyish, but one of them was a car saleswoman).
• Ludd Was Right: They zig-zag on this trope, as seen with the car ownership issue below.
• Both are against any means to stop car ownership and don't like the way society has gone trying to get car-sharing and Uber to be popular, nostalgic for the 2000s when it wasn't such a big societal issue. Yes, Ripped from the Headlines but it's an issue.
• In terms of financial status, DINK (double-income no kids) and both want to be child-free, but one of them is an aunt already, so that's as far as it goes for them.
• As for LGBT issues: they don't really advertise it or have any involvement in LGBT-related activism.
• Both claim they don't fit in with the LGBTQ community and feel like outsiders being involved in it, Carla claims:
  Carla: An LGBTQ activist probably wouldn't go down too well at the local Classic Auto Show or auto show.
• Carla has Ultimate Job Security but it's justified as she's freelance and has long-standing clients who recommend her services on their personal websites; she's only had George Jetson Job Security very few times. Jenny's job security is quite good, doesn't change that often, but not quite full George Jetson Job Security.
• Jenny comes from a fictional small town in Texas (just outside the DFW area) where homophobia is still common and it's very traditional; the town isn't Frozen in Time physically, but is still that way in terms of attitudes - it's closer to the 1980s or early 1990s when LGBT issues weren't common. The town is racist too, and hasn't taken well to an Australian living there (he's Aboriginal) who's a businessman. The small town isn't a tiny hamlet, but it's not a township/subdistrict as Texas doesn't have them.
• Jenny has a Texan accent, but it's more of a Dallas-Fort Worth one.
• Jenny is Texan, but doesn't display many of the traditional Texan stereotypes aside from salt-of-the-earth, good people.
• Neither are religious.

Edited by Merseyuser1 on May 7th 2021 at 12:24:21 PM

This got asked in another thread so I thought I'd ask it here (hope it hasn't been brought up before):

How could you write a gay character who is not interested in romance for some reason (they're workaholics, they've made a vow of chastity or they just don't put that much importance in having a romantic partner)?

I understand such a character runs the risk of having their sexuality be an informed attribute.

Disclaimer: I am cishet, but Informed Attribute really just strikes me as "we don't bring this up ever at all", and there are many ways to write a character's sexuality without actually seeing them doin' it. Lots of straight romances are implied without that. These strike me as possibilities:

• Balance that by writing in other gay characters who do do the do.
• Going back to the above point that a gay character interacts differently with the world. Are they treated differently for their sexuality or see certain things differently?
• Does the character still find themselves attracted to people of the same sex, even if they don't act on that attraction? Did they have sex and romance before this chaste lifestyle? Is their disinterest in romance also mean they are disinterested in sex itself?
• Are they in touch with gay culture, or care about LGBT issues?

A lot more crude than ^'s suggestions, but your character may just be interested in seeing hot men and not in the romance/dating aspects.

I think the implication is that the character doesn't care much for romance or sex.

It's still worth pointing out that who you like having a romantic relationship with and who you like having sex with are two different things, and that they don't always "match".

That said, the character could mention past relationships, crushes, and/or fantasies involving people of the same gender, and if you ever write from this character's POV, as Synchronicity said, that would be an opportunity to show them appreciating the attractiveness of someone of their gender even if the other person never notices or finds out, and they never act on it. And of course, you don't have to be actively acting on your non-cis sexual preferences in order to be in touch with gay/LGBT culture and/or to feel a personal connection to LGBT issues.