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TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#1: Mar 4th 2016 at 3:04:12 PM

Socialdemocracy! Jante's law! Amazing natural parks! Silent angry Finns! Not so silent Soldiers of Odin! And LOL-diers of Odin! And November! Seriously, fuck November!

There's so much to talk about! So "sorry for the mess in Sweden", and welcome to the Nordic Politics thread.

Topic of the day: how good the Swedish National Anthem sounds to the tune of the Hymn of the USSR! Try it:

Du gamla, Du fria, Du fjällhöga nord
Du tysta, Du glädjerika sköna!
Jag hälsar Dig, vänaste land uppå jord,
/: Din sol, Din himmel, Dina ängder gröna.:

More serious topic: refugees. Are they really such a problem, or merely a distraction? Just so you guys know, I've only been here for less than a year and I'm already involved in two solidarities (I hate the term "charity", it's so Condescending Compassion), one being a choir/jazz/dance orchestra, the other being Engineers Without Borders helping foreign-trained engineers find jobs as quickly as possible. So far I have been fortunate to only meet people who want to help, and people who are grateful for the help and doing their best to make the most of it.

Another interesting topic: cooperation across the Baltic Sea on Global Warming countermeasures. Man, are those a diverse bunch!

edited 4th Mar '16 3:07:17 PM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#2: Mar 4th 2016 at 10:38:58 PM

[up]

Problem? Nah, the problems are largely localised to the area they're around in, but as per usual people can get hysterical. It's the usual stuff, Sunni/Shia violence and other things as people get frustrated. In fact, the refugees themselves were not the topic the last few weeks, but rather the Eastern border with Russia and the curious way they got directed to it. Although that has stopped and now we have no idea were the refugees have disappeared to. None have come over the border the last few days.

Then we have a dozen possible war crime trials coming up. Pro-tip: don't post atrocities in social media. SUPO knows. They always know.

Really not sure if anything even happens around these parts of the world. Outside of the local context.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#3: Mar 4th 2016 at 11:17:33 PM

Got any juicy links to share?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#4: Mar 4th 2016 at 11:47:59 PM

[up]

Not joking when I say, "no". Nothing interesting or momentous is going on.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#5: Mar 5th 2016 at 1:55:16 AM

How about Sweden pledges aid to Greece for refugee care while simultaneously reducing its own admittance, and Will cash payments soon be history in Sweden?,

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#6: Mar 5th 2016 at 2:07:29 AM

[up]

Didn't think the card payment machines were that expensive. I keep cash around just in case, in several currencies, since I never know if my card will work or not.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#7: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:11:42 AM

Sweden has the highest per-capita admittance in the EU - I think they've done their bit by this point.

I suppose we'll see a new paradigm for refugee integration in the future. Multiculturalism has, depending on who you ask, either failed or is unpopular. I can't say I'm necessarily upset, since my instinct would be for a more assimilationist policy anyway.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#8: Mar 5th 2016 at 3:20:17 AM

Multiculturalism requires learning about the other culture, and developing a certain kind of active tolerance that doesn't come easy.

Assimilation by pure formatting can also be counter-productive, and painful.

Ideally assimilation should be mutual; Hellenization was a great historical example. Same at Al Andalus. Although I'm told that Nordic countries have changed a lot since the past, I keep hearing it in terms of Neoliberal reforms and acquiring a more capitalistic mentality. But there is some comment of Jante's Law getting more and more phased out, and people getting better at things other cultures would take for granted, like accepting praise, or talking about passion.

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#9: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:04:37 AM

The problem is that I don't think its reasonable for Europeans to view their culture as 'just one of many' in its nation of birth. British culture might not necessarily be better (a term without real meaning in this context) than Pakistani culture, but I think it is more appropriate than Pakistani culture within the four corners of our islands. That's not to say that cultural distinctiveness of new communities should be wiped out, but some practices should be absolutely forbidden, and tolerance has never included everyone. A society that is tolerant of FGM or 'cultural' domestic violence, for example, is not tolerant of women.

I think communities can play a role in that, as well - a good example would be clan politics in the British Pakistani community, where attempts to dismiss these concerns as prejudiced were contradicted by members of that community themselves.

Schild und Schwert der Partei
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#10: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:16:45 AM

I would say our stance on multiculturalism is fine, it's always been one of "follow your culture but also FOLLOW THE BLOODY LAW!" the people who commit those atrocities are arrested and tried when it comes to light, the problem is often with the older, more hard line generations covering it up and keeping it secret, though that is also a problem with the "native" culture, remember that woman who had her daughter kidnapped, drugged and hidden in her uncles house so she could scam sympathy money? but otherwise I would say Britain is probable the prime example of how multiculturalism can work, British culture is a combination of every foreign culture to enter these isles since the Roman invasion

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TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#11: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:20:42 AM

That's why it's important for communities to learn about each other; this includes not presuming to speak in place of others, and actually listening to what they have to say, in all their diversity, rather than treating them as homogenous groups and/or protectorates.

Furthermore, cultural habits that worked within a certain territory at a certain time and place may well have become obsolete; this consideration applies to both indigenous and incoming cultures.

[up]That's not an unproblematic statement. The British Isles had a long history of dominant groups suppressing others and their cultures, and of setting power-minorities against each other. This is still reflected in today's very vivid, stratified classism (and reverse-classism), the vague notion in some places that not being a "local Lad" is a sort of crime unto itself, and the association of French with Fancy in the collective consciousness, among others.

edited 5th Mar '16 4:38:00 AM by TheHandle

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#12: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:34:22 AM

Relevant.

When it comes to policy in anything our current government has one of the most fragmented internal and foreign policies in a while. All things considered it'll take a while for the refugee policies to be even handled. Poor interior minister is under quite a bit of pressure.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#13: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:39:23 AM

I can't see the smaller details very well. What is this about?

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
FieldMarshalFry Field Marshal of Cracked from World Internet War 1 Since: Oct, 2015 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Field Marshal of Cracked
#14: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:48:00 AM

[up][up][up]the ones which attempted suppression were hostile invaders who, in the case of the Roman Empire, did it to everyone in Europe, and it has to be remember that England wasn't a unified culture back then (and the Cornish are still kinda pissed about that), the Saxon kings were just as split as the previous ones, and the Norman's only took over the aristocracy, not caring about the peasants as long as they were loyal, keeping British culture alive as weird hybrid with more parts added over the centuries, which is why curry is basically a national dish and The Notting Hill Carnival is such a major, colourful, event

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Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#15: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:54:04 AM

[up] England still hasn't got a unified culture. Try the Lancashire-Yorkshire rivalry, for example. And anyway, Rome was a Hegemonic Empire — it wasn't all suppression. The Romano-British, on the whole, wanted to be the Roman Empire. We didn't want the Romans to leave.

Anyway Fry, isn't this thread about Nordic Politics?

Keep Rolling On
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#16: Mar 5th 2016 at 4:57:05 AM

[up]x3

Between Russia and migrants, Finland really doesn't know what to do.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
FFShinra Since: Jan, 2001
#17: Mar 5th 2016 at 8:25:07 AM

I have a feeling Russia will inform you how you guys can get out of that particular vise. Probably to do with some other issue (whatever it may be) Russia has that Finland is on the opposite side of.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#18: Mar 5th 2016 at 8:45:54 AM

[up]

Well, that's what so bizarre. We have no idea what is going on.

EDIT: The Great Scandinavian Divergence

Considering how hilariously unstable the Finnish mark was, Euro is nothing but an improvement.

edited 6th Mar '16 1:00:44 AM by TerminusEst

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#19: Jul 9th 2016 at 5:42:39 PM

Sweden and Denmark's official Twitter accounts got into a tweet war, and it's hilarious!

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
TheHandle United Earth from Stockholm Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
United Earth
#20: Jul 29th 2016 at 11:17:36 AM

So today I came across a thing called Raggare; a sort of greaser counterculture that used to be scandalous, now is only mildly obnoxious/entertaining. Today they had a festival of sorts, and the big avenues were full of lots of classic cars, especially fifties muscle cars.

... And confederate flags. WTF?!

So why the confederate flags? I thought Swedes were generally nice people?

Of course Swedes are generally nice people – most people around the world are generally nice people. Like most cultural icons, the Confederate flag doesn't translate fully when its taken overseas. Even in the United States, the Confederate flag doesn't always translate well. In Sweden, it's both a symbol of America and rebellion, and not of anything with scary undertones.

That's weird.

To some, maybe, but bits of culture get interpreted differently in disparate parts of the world. Look at us, we invented Spam Musubi. But back to Reggare.

I love the cars, but that confed flag reaaaaally gets under my skin...

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#21: Jul 29th 2016 at 11:45:38 AM

[up]I remember a conversation about the way the flag is interpreted outside the US in the Racism thread. I guess it proves a point that there will always be people who are gonna associate it less with slavery and more with, say, Dukes of Hazzard or something.

edited 29th Jul '16 11:45:59 AM by Quag15

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
DrDougsh Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Jul 29th 2016 at 3:41:34 PM

Um, what does that have to do with Nordic politics?

Ekuran Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#24: Jul 30th 2016 at 9:47:23 AM

It's what I'm guessing Quag was referring to, and now I'm continuing this derail. Should probably just stop.

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