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Diversity and Representation in Media

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A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.

Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.

Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.

    Original OP 
For discussing any racial, gender, and orientation misdoings happening across various movies and the film industry today.

This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.


(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)

Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#15051: Apr 16th 2018 at 8:07:49 AM

Damn, I used to watch Criminal Minds fairly regularly and while I remember some really questionable episodes I didn't remember it being that bad so consistently. Glad I stopped watching a long time ago.

Tell me about it. I'd remembered some bad ones, but "evil child stealing Gypsies"? I missed that one on my first watch through. I had never seen the episode before yesterday; probably would have stopped watching the show if I had, because even eight years ago I knew that was a racist stereotype.

I'm starting to wonder what neo-Nazi goon they had on their writing staff. Because it's not an accident that you create an episode so bad that it could be used as a recruiting tool for the Iron Guard.

edited 16th Apr '18 8:09:15 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Nightwire Since: Feb, 2010
#15052: Apr 16th 2018 at 8:17:52 AM

That was amazingly offensive. Who thought it was a good idea?

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#15054: Apr 16th 2018 at 3:08:18 PM

Also the part of "keeping the bloodline pure" sound something of pure projection, somethign white supremasit strugle quite a damn lot.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
blkwhtrbbt The Dragon of the Eastern Sea from Doesn't take orders from Vladimir Putin Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
The Dragon of the Eastern Sea
#15055: Apr 16th 2018 at 8:09:34 PM

That must be it. "White girls are pure". Therefore, for a "dirty Romani" to "keep the bloodlines pure" they must kidnap white girls. God, Nazi logic is so repulsive, and so predictable.

Say to the others who did not follow through You're still our brothers, and we will fight for you
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#15056: Apr 16th 2018 at 8:30:19 PM

I actually went to watch the episode Ambar talked about.

It's worse than what he described. It's somehow worse.

Actual dialogue:

"We're looking for fanatic, insular eastern europeans."

"So...Romani."

Actual dialogue Number 2:

"Romani keep themselves insular by twisting other cultures into their own.

Also the worldwide romani conspiracy to kidnap innocent white girls Ambar mentioned has been going on at least since 1908 by the show's reckoning.

It's literally one shade away from being actual nazi propaganda.

edited 16th Apr '18 8:30:43 PM by Gaon

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#15058: Apr 16th 2018 at 8:33:19 PM

The heroes aren't wearing SS Uniforms, swastikas and speaking in German.

That's basically it.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#15059: Apr 16th 2018 at 8:58:37 PM

Jesus Christ. What the hell????

FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#15060: Apr 16th 2018 at 9:00:52 PM

Now you've got me imagining a police procedural Show Within a Show that would exist in the universe of The Man In The High Castle.

Gestapo: Neu York. Where plucky Nazi secret police detectives must investigate the murders and rapes of Aryan victims and bring their degenerate Jew, gypsy, homosexual, communist, and non-Aryan perpetrators to a gas chamber justice.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#15061: Apr 16th 2018 at 10:03:48 PM

Thought I'd link Wikipedia's article on the Romani Holocaust or Porajmos, given the topic at hand. It's genuinely disturbing how much that Criminal Minds episode echoes the rhetoric of Hitler, Antonescu, Pavelic, and other Fascist leaders. And for a lot of those watching it, I expect it's the only exposure they ever got to the Romani.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#15062: Apr 16th 2018 at 10:05:42 PM

So, um, it's looking like Shang may not be in that live action Mulan movie after all

https://www.themarysue.com/disney-removing-shang-keep-it/

wisewillow She/her Since: May, 2011
She/her
#15063: Apr 16th 2018 at 10:18:31 PM

I am legitimately furious. Who the hell is in charge of this movie? Did they... watch Mulan? Ever? At all?

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#15064: Apr 16th 2018 at 11:14:35 PM

As I said: They don't GET it. Not even why Shang is important. And yes, I know that there was a small group of feminists kicking up a fuss about "Mulan having to marry" at the end of the movie, but a LOT of people feel that it sends a positive message that Mulan doesn't have to follow the "ideal woman" ideas to be desirable (and, as I pointed out, Mulan doesn't marry, she just indicates that Shang is allowed to romance her).

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#15065: Apr 16th 2018 at 11:19:07 PM

I've never heard of anyone who criticized Mulan because of her getting married or something.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Draghinazzo (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
#15066: Apr 16th 2018 at 11:21:01 PM

The film doesn't end with marriage to my recollection. That was saved for the less than stellar DTV sequel that we all just ignore :p

Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#15067: Apr 16th 2018 at 11:41:56 PM

As I said, not many people agree, but the notion that there is romance at all was a point of contention for some feminist (the bunch who always have something to complain about regarding Disney). "So she has to give up helping to rule a country in order to go home and becoming a wife".

AdricDePsycho Rock on, Gold Dust Woman from Never Going Back Again Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Rock on, Gold Dust Woman
#15068: Apr 16th 2018 at 11:49:44 PM

the bunch who always have something to complain about regarding Disney

Again, who are these people? Because generally when this is brought up in here, it's usually some vague strawman that is more confusing than anything. I still don't know of anyone who's ever said that about Mulan.

Have you any dreams you'd like to sell?
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#15069: Apr 17th 2018 at 12:35:49 AM

[up] I am sorry that I don't remember the name of people who have written articles about this nearly 20 years ago! Though I guess I stumbled over most of them around 15 years ago...it is the "Disney eat my daughter" or however this book is called crowd. And yes, they DO exist, Frozen is a direct reaction to all of their complains (which is part of the reason why I don't like the movie all that much, btw). And considering that Beauty and the Beast was more or less about addressing all of the so called "plot holes" which are supposedly in the original movie, I won't be surprised if they try to "improve" Mulan by addressing all those stupid nitpicks anyone ever complained about regarding the movie, instead of focussing on what people loved about it in the first place!

edited 17th Apr '18 12:37:54 AM by Swanpride

RBluefish Since: Nov, 2013
#15070: Apr 17th 2018 at 2:19:16 AM

This movie being made by white people was already a bad sign. This not helping in the slightest.

"We'll take the next chance, and the next, until we win, or the chances are spent."
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#15071: Apr 17th 2018 at 2:28:09 AM

Thing is that none of the news surrounding the movie have so far be in any way encouraging. So far Jungle Book is the only remake which worked, and that was pretty much a passion project. Those other Remakes aren't, they are above all cash grabs, and combining this with a property like Mulan is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#15072: Apr 17th 2018 at 2:28:24 AM

There's a strange habit in many movies that apparently Action Girl types can't have any sort of romance or relationships.

How many superheroines have stable boyfriends, for example?

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Swanpride Since: Jun, 2013
#15073: Apr 17th 2018 at 2:58:10 AM

[up]Off the top of my mind, two. Sue Storm and Elastigirl.

windleopard from Nigeria Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
#15074: Apr 17th 2018 at 3:26:12 AM

If Disney were trying to appease people who hated the romance in the first Mulan movie, they'd have cut out the idea of a romance entirely. From this report, they're keeping the romance but replacing Shang. The twitter account and the commenters in the article I linked also pointed out that Shang can be read as bisexual, so this seems more like trying to appease China who don't care for the LGBT community and less appeasing people who hate romance in Disney movies.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#15075: Apr 17th 2018 at 3:49:19 AM

Funny how the upcoming live-action remake is somehow less progressive than the animated original that was made years ago.

As for that Criminal Minds glorified Neo-Nazi propaganda episode...makes me glad I was never a fan of the show.

edited 17th Apr '18 3:50:15 AM by M84

Disgusted, but not surprised

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